Berry is sick

[Basia]

Berry is very poorly. I thought at first she may have wet-tail but reading up on line it says it is very watery, light coloured diarrhea and she has thick dark, foul smelling stuff all around her rear end. Could it be pyro? Her eyes are half-closed but she is moving around and drinking. I have moved her downstairs away from the other hamsters. I have to be at the vets at 8.30 am tomorrow anyway, my poodle has to have an operation, so I will arrange an appt for Berry. I could just give up keeping any pets at the moment.
:cry:

[Moosley]

It could still be wet tail, does she smell at all?

Just concentrate on keeping her hydrated until morning, a bit of cucumber or some very very weak watered down fruit juice in a syringe to feed her if she isnt drinking much.

If she is too dirty and not too stressed then maybe a warm damp bit of cotton wool to clean her up before she gets sore.

[jayne]

I'm sorry to hear about Berry :(
I dont know what else it could be other than wet tail as i've only had experience of this.
As Moosley said, keep her hydrated and if you can without stressing her out give her a little clean. I really feel for you Basia, i know its hard but try to keep your chin up and we all know you are doing best. Let us know how u get at the vets!

[I_am_plankton]

Oh my god I am really sorry about Berry Basia :( What an awful thing :(

It is possibly pyometra or wet tail, the vet will be able to distinguish but hydration is important in both cases. Pyometra is deadly if not treated early, same as wet tail :(

Let us know how she gets on?

Thinking of you both xx

[Holly]

Oh Gill, how awful for you and Berry. Obviously either way Berry needs the vet ASAP and I hope you can get her seen today. I'm thinking of you and keeping everything crossed.

[Basia]

Thanks for your advice. I cleaned her up last night and it is definitely diarrhea. She has an appt to see the vet at 10.15.
I'm going to take her in her own cage because I don't want to give her any extra stress by moving her into a travel box.
How could she have got wet-tail though? I thought they had to be in contact with another hamster with wet-tail. Also are all my others going to get it? Truffle is due to have babies on Wednesday and she is on the shelf above where Berry normally is. :cry:

[Spuds Mum]

Oh Gill, how horrible for you and poor Berry! Let me know what the vet says asap wont you?
Healing thoughts for Berry, I hope it isn't too serious.

Thniking of you both xx

[Holly]

It might not be wet tail, Gill - she's had the fur loss thing recently and she may just be run down and have a digestive upset. I'm glad you got her into the vet, I'll be thinking of both and I hope she's ok.

[Basia]

Her cage smells exactly like a scouring rabbit, a smell which fills me with dread to this day and I only have one rabbit now.

[Spuds Mum]

I dont know what scouring rabbit is Gill, not ever having had any rabbits, but I hope you managed to arrange an appointment. Hopefully as has been said something has just disagreed with her. I know you have had the worries of Peaches and Beckham recently, but at least the symptoms dont appear to be similar at all?

*Big hug*

[Mollz]

I'm so sorry to hear this Gill. Everyone else has said everything that can be said.
So I'll just say that my thoughts are with you and poor little Berry, let us know how it goes at the vets. Hugs to you both xx

[Basia]

It is wet-tail. Apparently she doesn't need to have been in contact with another hamster with it, it can just occur. She has obviously been stressed, she got mite, now this, but goodness knows what has been stressing her. There is nothing obvious and the vet says her cage and everything is more than good.
Our vet thinks that antibiotics cause more harm than help so said I was doing exactly right giving her water and probiotic. She has supplied me with probiotics from them which she says might be better than what I am using. I am not supposed to go near my other hamsters, though goodness knows who will look after them if I don't. Apparently Truffle will be the most at risk because her immune system will be lowered as she is pregnant. Of course she was also the closest to Berry as well. I really feel miserable, the dog is at the vets also having surgery. :cry:
Gill

[Spuds Mum]

Oh Gill, I am so sorry to hear that. Poor Berry. I am sure that the hamsters will cope without you for a short while, or maybe Mark can do just the bare minimum with them to make sure they have food, water just for the next few days.

I will pray for Berry's recovery and also that Truffle remains well and unaffected.

I do hope that despite the seriousness, Berry makes a recovery, and also that your poor doggy also is well after his surgery.

I just dont know what to say to be honest, but I am thinking of you x

[Holly]

I'm so sorry, Gill, I'm keeping everything I have crossed for Berry. I'm not sure about the no antibiotics idea - obviously the vet knows what they are doing but I thought actual, proper wet-tail was a virulent bacterial infection of the gut that needs antibiotics to get better. I know that many vets label all diarrhoeas as "wet tail", I'm just hoping that's the case here and that it will improve on it's own without the added stress antibiotics put on the hamster digestive system.

As for Truffle, a doctor told me this once - yes, the immune systems of pregnant women are lowered in order that their bodies don't reject the babies as a "foreign object" - but despite this very few women actually get infections in the latter stages of pregnancy. It's like the body has some way of preventing them while it's preparing for birth. I hope this is the case with Truffle, she hasn't actually been in direct contact with Berry anyway so her chances of getting it are less than say littermates.

Just get your hubby to dump some food in the cages of the others for now, they'll be ok like that for a few days, it's only like you've gone away and someone else is looking after them for a short time. I'm thinking of you.

[Basia]

[quote=Holly]I'm so sorry, Gill, I'm keeping everything I have crossed for Berry. I'm not sure about the no antibiotics idea - obviously the vet knows what they are doing but I thought actual, proper wet-tail was a virulent bacterial infection of the gut that needs antibiotics to get better. I know that many vets label all diarrhoeas as "wet tail", I'm just hoping that's the case here and that it will improve on it's own without the added stress antibiotics put on the hamster digestive system.
She says that she has treated with antibiotics and a few survive, most die and not treating with antibiotics but keeping them hydrated, a few survive, most die. She thinks that the antibiotics don't do much good and it can be very difficult to get the hamster eating again after antibiotics if it does survive. This has also been my experience with rabbits so as Berry is most likely to die either way I will go along with what she says.

As for Truffle, a doctor told me this once - yes, the immune systems of pregnant women are lowered in order that their bodies don't reject the babies as a "foreign object" - but despite this very few women actually get infections in the latter stages of pregnancy. It's like the body has some way of preventing them while it's preparing for birth. I hope this is the case with Truffle, she hasn't actually been in direct contact with Berry anyway so her chances of getting it are less than say littermates.
I really hope so. I think I will give up if anything happens to Truffle, I can't take much more of this.

Just get your hubby to dump some food in the cages of the others for now, they'll be ok like that for a few days, it's only like you've gone away and someone else is looking after them for a short time. I'm thinking of you.[/quote:qo5gzwiy]
Yes, I'm sure he will.

Thanks for all your good wishes.

[Holly]

Hang in there, Gill - some survive and if antibiotics are neither here nor there then it's those that get the good nursing care that have the best chance. You are brilliant at empathising with what your animals need and Berry knows how much you care about her. She's also an adult with a mature immune system and you've caught it very early - she must have a better than average chance of recovery, surely. If prayer does anything then she must have an even better chance given how many people will be praying for you both.

I wish souffle were here, she knows just what to do for the best.

[xtashax]

I just wanted to say i hope she is ok, and makes a full recovery.

[Basia]

Souffle gives them chicken soup!
I will make some for Berry later. The vet thought she was quite perky considering, she gave her a 50:50 chance. She is definitely drinking, I gave her a bowl last night with water/probiotic in and she just laps it up. I have always found that sick animals are more likey to drink out of a bowl that an bottle. I also have some syringes from the vet to give her water with. I think it is the dehydration that kills them.
I will do everything I can for Berry as I love her dearly but I know her chances are not the best. I think what is really getting to me is the thought that it could spread to all of them.

[Holly]

I think it is the dehydration that kills them.


I think so too, if she's drinking and the vet thinks she's got a 50/50 chance that sounds a little better.

This is heartbreaking for you, Gill, I'll pray it doesn't spread to any of the others, perhaps as you realised so quickly that will help too.

[Mollz]

Oh, Gill I'm so sorry and can't believe you have to go through all this.
I think you are right about it being the dehydration that kills, so as long as she keeps taking some kind of water/fluid then she should be ok. As Julie said, it is the ones with the best care that survive, and you give far better care to your hamsters than many people do.

My thoughts are with you, Berry and Truffle too (although, as long as she hasn't been in contact with Berry then I'm sure she will be fine). Your other hamsters wont come to any harm if they don't get handled for a few days, or even a week or more if neccessary, although I'm sure your hubby will take good care of them.

[Basia]

I'm feeling a bit better now. I have just had a long conversation with Jenny, Berry's breeder. She says it is highly unlikely to be wet-tail, she has only seen about 2 cases since she started keeping hamsters in the early 70's. Even if it is wet-tail she says it doesn't spread right through them. She thinks Berry has diarrhea, which is serious and I am doing all the right things with her. She also told me to check her teeth because diarrhea can be a sign of over-grown teeth. I haven't done it yet because Berry has just gone back to bed having been drinking and trying to eat, but I could kick myself because it would have been the first thing I checked if a rabbit developed diarrhea (commonly called scours, Teresa).
Anyway she has made me feel a lot better and I'm glad I rang her.

[Spuds Mum]

Glad you feel better Gill, and I am sure Jenny knows what she is talking about with her great experience.

You are taking every possible step to help the wee girl, and I am sure she appreciates it. I've never read that about the teeth anywhere, so that is something to store away for the future.

I have the day off work Gill and have been cleaning the hamster room out. In a drawer I came across an unused copy of hamsters in sickness and in health by Sheila Adby, which is a good book (the one I referred to in my email the other day) which is amazing as the copy I was looking at is downstairs! I must have bought it twice. :oops:

Email me your address Gill and I will post it through to you - a thankyou present for Bubba's wheel! :)

Get well soon Berry, and stop worrying your mum x

[jayne]

I am thinking of you and Berry and hope she can get through this. It is a horrible thing, You just feel so helpless but TLC and making her as comfortable and hydrated as possible is really the best you can do for her. I cant really comment on the no antibiotics advice.
If you remember when my Pepsi had wet tail i went through about 5 days of giving him baytril, water through a syringe and cleaning him. I was distraught at the pain he must have been going through and on the last day he was with me, i never touched him at all to give him medication or to clean him as it was too much for him.
As Julie mentioned, she has a mature immune system and will hopefully fight through it. I remember souffle recommending chicken soup to me. here is the link to the topic

http://www.hamstercentral.com/forum/vie ... php?t=2599 (http://www.hamstercentral.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2599)

I am keeping everything crossed and thinking of you

[Basia]

Thank you all so much for the kind comments, it has really helped me today.
Teresa I would love the book and have e-mailed you my address but let me pay for it!

The teeth thing and diarrhea is because they pick all the soft stuff out of the food and don't get enough roughage, so they start to get diarrhea but it is because they are not eating properly because their teeth aren't right. My particular breed of rabbit was so prone to teeth problems that as soon as one developed any sign of diarrhea I would check the teeth. It just didn't occur to me to do the same with a hamster. :?
Gill

[Spuds Mum]

No way will you pay for it Gill - as your comment about Bubba's wheel, it is no use to me, and it is what friends do for each other!

I got your address so it will be winging its way to you within the next couple of days. Hopefully by then Berry will be feeling better (everything crossed for that) and you wont need that bit of the book for the longest time! x

[Basia]

No way will you pay for it Gill - as your comment about Bubba's wheel, it is no use to me, and it is what friends do for each other!

I got your address so it will be winging its way to you within the next couple of days. Hopefully by then Berry will be feeling better (everything crossed for that) and you wont need that bit of the book for the longest time! x

THANK YOU!

[Holly]

I'm so glad that Jenny was able to be so positive about things, Gill - with all her hamster experience that's great. I firmly believe that a lot of what's called "wet tail" actually isn't - any diarrhoea is serious in itself in such tiny animals but is a different kettle of fish to wet tail.

Hamsters in Sickness and in Health is a wonderful book, lets hope - as Teresa says - your need for it in this instance has passed by the time it arrives :wink:

[souffle]

I'm here. I am so sorry to hear about Berry Basia. I agree with Jenny that is is highly unlikely to be wet tail. True wet tail is usually only seen in younger animals under stress however that is not to say she has not picked up some sort of other bacterial infection causing the diarrhoea. It could however be a mixed infection as often a pyo will cause diarrhoea too. Is her tummy swollen at all. What bedding is she on? I would go for carefresh or something similar as it is very absorbent. If u have an airing cupboard I would put her in it and keep her very warm. A wheat bag under the nest may help. When this ill they are unable to control and maintain the body temperature so you need to do it. Keep up the fluid, baby re hydration fluid is good with some avipro prebiotic in it. She needs rest and quiet and yes I would feed chicken soup to an animal which simply will not eat anything else on the assumption that anything is better than nothing. It is just boiled rice and minced chicken really with a pinch of salt in it. You can also give a tiny bit of live yogurt if she will take it and if you have some arrowroot you can mix it in to a paste. Some honey may help tempt her and provide energy so mix a drop of that in too
I too am praying for little Berry but I know how very very hard it is to pull a hamster through either conditions. You can only try your very best and you have to know too when the time has come if she cannot make it. I know you will know this and my heart goes out to you Gill. I wish I could wave a wand for her I really do. Much love to her and you all too as this is a very difficult time for you. I can fully empathise. We are still reeling from recent events :cry:

[suga]

Thinking of you and hoping for a good recovery. sugax

[Hanlou]

Thinking of you and hoping for a good recovery. sugax

Ditto :( x

Thinking of you here too......

[pophammy]

Poor Berry, I'm so sorry to hear about her. Hope she gets better soon! :(

[Basia]

It could however be a mixed infection as often a pyo will cause diarrhoea too. Is her tummy swollen at all. What bedding is she on? I would go for carefresh or something similar as it is very absorbent. If u have an airing cupboard I would put her in it and keep her very warm.
She doesn't have a swollen tummy. She's actually much thinner than she used to be. I've got her on megazorb now, she did have finecard but I've cleaned her out. I know its stressful but Jenny advised me to because the finecard is new to her and she may not like it.
A wheat bag under the nest may help. When this ill they are unable to control and maintain the body temperature so you need to do it. Keep up the fluid, baby re hydration fluid is good with some avipro prebiotic in it. She needs rest and quiet and yes I would feed chicken soup to an animal which simply will not eat anything else on the assumption that anything is better than nothing. It is just boiled rice and minced chicken really with a pinch of salt in it. You can also give a tiny bit of live yogurt if she will take it.
I have put her next to the radiator in the dining room and will leave the heating on overnight. Our airing cupboard is too small and hot for her I would think.
I too am praying for little Berry but I know how very very hard it is to pull a hamster through either conditions. You can only try your very best and you have to know too when the time has come if she cannot make it. I know you will know this and my heart goes out to you Gill. I wish I could wave a wand for her I really do. Much love to her and you all too as this is a very difficult time for you. I can fully empathise. We are still reeling from recent events :cry:[/quote]
Thank you souffle, and everyone else, for your good wishes. It does help. She doesn't look too good tonight to be honest. The diarrhea is very watery now, which is not surprising as she is not really eating. She has taken some of her water and probiotic from the syringe. I will offer her some boiled rice later and she has her normal hamster mix, which she does look at.
I have resigned myself to accept whatever happens, I am not really optimistic but haven't given up hope. I haven't had very good news with Bunty my poodle either. She went in for endoscope investigation, x-rays and various other tests which have now been sent to the lab. The x-rays showed she has a very enlarged heart and fluid in her lungs. It is apparently very common in the breed (toy poodle) but I am shell-shocked, she is so lively and feisty, I just can't believe it.

[Mollz]

Oh Gill, everything is happening at once.

My thoughts and prayers really are with you and you know you can talk to us if you need to. I'm so sorry...

[I_am_plankton]

Gill this is awful :( I really hope Berry can make a recovery, I really hope it passes and that it is nothing serious :(

I hope your Poodle will be ok - but the tablets they give for an enlarged heart do work as I know someone with a jack russell who has them and she has lived with it for 2 years now.

Thinking of you xx

[Spuds Mum]

Poor Berry and Bunty. I do hope they both pull through.

I know that you will be giving them the best care possible, and that they will want for nothing.

Just make sure you give yourself some TLC too Gill (or even better get Mark to give some to you) as I know you have been having a hard time what with Peaches and your worries over Beckham lately also. Be kind to yourself. xx

[souffle]

Big hugs Basia. I just know. I have been there and you will cope, you will. With love and the relationship you have with your little ones you feel what they feel and know in your heart what is right and what will happen. Treasure each moment. When you know what you have done for each has been done with love you know it was always right and it was always your best no matter what happens. I would not try and force anything on Berry, Basia. I don't think you would do this anyway as if her time is coming soon you should tell her you love her and give her your permission to go. I know sometimes I feel they wait for you to let them go. Everyone hopes and prays they will get better and for Berry I hope that happens too but sometimes they feel they cannot. You will know Basia, trust me you will know.
Bunty sounds indeed like a feisty lady and I am sure she will come up trumps. Bodie was very ill too for quite a lot of his life but he was always a fighter. Right up till the night before he died his zest and joy still stayed and is still lingering here still. Bunty has that will and I am sure she will pull through and hopefully grace your lives with her presence for a long time yet. Let her enjoy each day as it comes for if you worry about tomorrow it really does spoil today and she obviously feels quite happy in herself. I hope the test results are good Basia and some treatment will have her back to her puppy self soon.