Aero is a.............

[Holly]

.........Dove!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :wink:

Andrew Bryan and Chris Logsdail were in no doubt at all - she has Dove grey fur down to the roots and no Cream at all plus no eye rings! Best of all Andrew thinks she's pretty good and definitely worth breeding from :shock: ....he says they are trying to get Doves standardised and that I might be able to help with that :shock:

In fact (souffle, brace yourself!) he directed me to the sales table as there was a nice male Dove Dom spot there!

Unfortunately.....or is that fortunately?..... he'd already been snapped up when I got there :? ...probably a good thing really :oops:

Anyway I'm pleased I know what she is - Mink would have been fine as I love 'em but Dove's even better - and, even more than that I'm pleased they thought she was nice and well worth breeding even :)

[souffle]

Thats great Holly. Well I would 'borrow' a husband for her or else you will have no room in your house for poor Will and will have to put him on the sales table as a donation! (because he is over 4 months) :lol: :lol:

[sammys/mum]

Oh how fantastic, I think I caught a glimpse of her from a distance and she looked beautiful! I must admit I dont really know much about colours but she sure was pretty :D

[Holly]

Thats great Holly. Well I would 'borrow' a husband for her or else you will have no room in your house for poor Will and will have to put him on the sales table as a donation! (because he is over 4 months) :lol: :lol:

Ha! After how he's behaved today I'd be glad to stick him there :oops:

I'm going to chat to Susan (Lilliput, I think) next week - apparently she's got Doves and she said she'd be happy to mate Aero for me, which would be the best solution all round 8)

[I_am_plankton]

Sue Washbrook is a great option for that Holly.

Aero is a beauty, I would breed her :)


I must admit 2 people did get me thinking of having litters today but the second option seems best.

Andrew Bryan offered to loan me his stud blue fawn Campbell from Sweden to my female when I get her next week and then we would split the litter. It has got me curious since she is only 6 weeks old so we have plenty of time to think about it and to be fair my older hams won't live forever :(

[Holly]

Yes, Leanne - Susan seems to have some gorgeous hamsters and the best option all round would be not to get another myself just now as I hope to have another litter coming soon as well as Aero's possible one :?

I'm so glad the dove dom-spot was gone - I know I'd have got carried away :oops:

I think it would be fab for you to breed your new hamster with the one of Andrew's - you do so much wonderful rescuing and I know you love doing it but I'm sure you'd get an awful lot from your own "show litter" (you were an impressive book steward today :wink: ).

[Spuds Mum]

whooo whoo whooo! Yay I so thought dove *smug grin*
Really pleased you got some good comments from those in the know!
I think she is a beauty and if you breed her I'll...(here Arti ties my hands to stop writing any further)... bet there will be lots of people wanting an Aero 'bubble' :x :x

[Gust0o]

bet there will be lots of people wanting an Aero 'bubble'

I know I would! She's absolutely gorgeous! :)

[Basia]

She is a little beauty Julie and so tame already. I'm really glad she is definitely a dove, although not surprised.
My Posh came from Sue Washbrook and the dove dom spot was her brother. Perhaps Aero will be visiting one of her other brothers?

Leanne I think it would be really nice for you to have at least one litter. :D

[Matty Day]

she is one lovely hamster. im sure she will show well in the future to :x

[Holly]

Thanks for all the nice comments, guys - Aero is blushing (oops I think she's a Cinnie after all :x )


My Posh came from Sue Washbrook and the dove dom spot was her brother. Perhaps Aero will be visiting one of her other brothers?


That would be brilliant! Sue is just over an hour from me (Alcester) so it would be fairly easy to do really. We'll talk about next week - there's loads of time, she's just a baby now and I wouldn't want to do it before she's 5-6 months old so she has lots of growing time first.

"Aero Bubble" - I like that :x

[Holly]

Well I'm now inundated with offers of Dove males to borrow for Aero (thanks to Teresa and her ability to ask anyone anything - thanks Teresa!) and she's only nine weeks old and far too young to breed yet anyway!

I'm looking for a little advice here. One of the males is a "silver dove" banded satin - obviously that would give lots of possible baby combo's for Aero. The other is a Dove male - older but did show very well in his time and has a lovely type - possibly what's needed as Aero doesn't have a known pedigree. I'm thinking I'd be best to go with the known good type Dove (perhaps I could borrow the silver dove banded satin for one of the babies - but that's getting rather carried away, I know!).

Advice anyone? :wink:

[Gust0o]

Personally, it sounds as if the wisest course of action - at least, at this early stage - would be to breed using the known pedigree.

But that's a lay opinion, mind.

I imagine you wouldn't have any problems finding homes for Aero's babies!

[Holly]

Well actually they are both "pedigree" hamsters! I met the brother of the Silver-Dove Satin Banded (that's a mouthful but his name's even longer!) on Saturday and he's was gorgeous - chunky and lovely and so laid back 8)

It's just that Sheryl (judge) said the other one is a better type - he's also older so I guess the ideal would be to mate him to Aero and then maybe mate Mr Long-Name to one of Aero's daughters.

I cant believe how lovely everyone in the hamster world is offering loans of stud hamsters 8)

[Gust0o]

Ha, it's a new concept - but whatever works!

What's the timescales for all this breeding, then, Holly?

Obviously, I'm thinking selfishly, as Aero was gorgeous - but are her daughters or grand-daughters going to be available?

I can't remember if you run a hamstery, or not :oops:

[Hanlou]

Julie.... am not being antagonistic here or trying to cause controversy but whilst I've been vacuuming (:!:) I've been thinking about hamster breeding ethics etc. It's just that it's all so very, very different from the ethics of the Rat Forum I go on.

Aero is gorgeous, astoundingly so even to my very untrained eye.... but she's from a pet shop so there is absolutely no history with her.

In the ratty world, breeding with a pretty, friendly rat of unknown background would be a complete 'no - no' even if the rat was very pretty and very friendly. The reasons of course are simple; with no history you don't know if there are tumours, aggression, a susceptibility to other diseases, general ill health tendencies etc in their 'family tree'. Two cute rats could produce cute babies that all die young due to mammary tumours or all have to be castrated due to hormonal problems etc etc..

Is it so very different in the hamster world because it's newer? Or are there less 'risk factors' in breeding a hamster of a totally unknown background? i.e - are there less inherited illnesses with hamsters? Rats can be prone to a number of illnesses, such as tumours, mycoplasma, hind leg paralysis and many other nasty things. Are hamsters more robust generally?

As said, I *really* am not pointing the finger or anything like that, I just would genuinely like to know why there is such a difference.

I'm very, very new to the hamster world; before Herbert came along I had mentally labelled all hamsters as creatures that slept all the time and bit you when they were awake. :oops: (How that little boy has changed our minds!) So my knowledge is tiny and limited, the vast array of colours, the different types of coat are all totally new to me! So I am naive. But I would like to be educated! :wink:

[Holly]

Yes, Gus - there definitely will be some "Aero Bubbles" available. Providing she grows well and stays healthy the plan would be to mate her at 4-5 months of age, most likley closer to five months as I'd like her to have more growing time. I will be wanting to keep at least one or two of the babies and the breeder whom I borrow the male from will probably want one/some of them as well - given the size of hamster litters there are likely to be others and I'll be looking for excellent homes in the usual way for those little guys. If you are interested I'll be happy to "reserve" one for you :wink:

Hanlou - I've no idea about rats so I can't comment on what is acceptable or unacceptable where breeding rats is concerned. I used to think exactly like you after reading the blanket "you can't breed petshop hamsters" comments on other forums - they make perfect sense as you don't know anything at all about the hamster if it comes from a petshop. I think it's important that the lay person goes away with the idea that breeding petshop hamsters is "wrong" - you can get into an awful mess breeding two petshop hamsters of unknown genetics.

However, after chatting to several of the best exhibition breeders and judges in the hamster world towards the tail end of last year, I was surprised to discover that many of them buy petshop hamsters and breed them into their lines - including the current Exhibitor of the Year. They do it because the established gene pool of "show hamsters" is actually quite small and constant in-breeding/line-breeding of these without injections of new genetics would eventually be just as unhealthy as breeding two random petshop hamsters together.

It is important to understand that they know what they are doing and are therefore able to avoid pairing up hamsters who have, or are likely to have, the problem recessive genes. They obviously would also only ever mate a hamster of unknown genetics to one with an established pedigree who has remained healthy into adulthood - which is exactly what I'm planning. The hamster I hope to mate Aero to is an older adult male with no health problems and an established pedigree. The breeder who owns him (also an NHC judge) has looked at Aero and is satisfied she doesn't carry the Wh gene - or any other known recessive that would cause a problem paired with her male (two recessive genes being needed for the gene to "show" in the offspring - he doesn't carry the Wh gene anyway but it's a good example).

Now I don't know how healthy Aero will be into old age - but I've also made the decision to mate Smartie our LH at the age of 5 months and I don't know how healthy she will be in older age either! Yes she's got an established pedigree but I don't know everyuthing that happened to every one of her ancestors as well as how old they were when they died. Unfortunately female hamsters need to be bred before they are 6 months old - you can only go on what you know of your hamster at this stage, there are no guarantees.

I'm guessing that, given your previous posts, you maybe don't totally feel ok about the hamster exhibition/breeding world and would prefer us to be maybe rescuing the poor hamsters out there that need homes (that maybe an unfair assumption, apologies if so!). That's fine, each to our own - there are aspects of it I'm not 100% happy with as well (like selling babies to unknown people at shows which I don't personally feel able to do at this stage) but I am happy and comfortable with the way I do things. I'm very lucky to have such experienced and helpful people in the showing world helping me and I'm happy to take their advice. I know that certain other small animal show people wouldn't be as welcoming or as helpful to newcomers, that's the beauty of hamster people 8)

Edited to add:

I know that Syrian hamsters are, compared to other rodents, far less likely to develop tumours. They are also thought to be relatively "robust" healthwise. They also come from a much smaller "gene pool" than other rodents (probably rats, like I said I don't know enough about rats to really comment). All the millions of Syrian hamsters currently in captivity all descend from one of three captured "families" of hamsters - most from the first - which, I guess, has to mean they are relatively robust genetically?

[Matty Day]

it is fine to breed pet shop hamster in my opinion if you know what your doing and you take into account what information you have with Syrians I would only recommend 2 pairings

i would only recommend two pairings

1 to a hamster with a known pedigree

2 2 golden pet shop hamsters of good not much can go wrong here


And I am going to admit this now if I got a good male rescue who did well in shows I would breed him.
But I would not even attempt a female just as the age can be unknown

its fine in my opionon as long as your careful

[Holly]

I don't think I'd ever mate two petshop/unknown genetic history hamsters together, Matty - even two Goldens can carry recessives and the Wh gene could be carried by them both and not be totally obvious. Yes, you mght well get away with it - but it would be an unecessary risk too far for me. I do think, as I said in my previous post, it is important for the the lay person to come away with the idea that breeding two petshop hamsters is *bad* - it is if you aren't 100% sure of what you are doing.

I would (obviously I'm planning to do it!) mate one petshop hamster if they were a good type, colour and (most importantly) healthy and of good temperament to an excellent pedigree/type - but only after discussing it with an experienced breeder/NHC judge to be sure that the petshop hamster is good enough to be bred from. If you are breeding for type and to improve your stock it would be a pointless exercise unless you were as sure as you can be that the hamster is good enough to use for breeding.

[Spuds Mum]

Julie, I think you have covered everything in your previous posts that i would say too. I have some pet shop hamsters I would never breed from, for example Peanut has always looked tiny and frail, and is a banded hamster so could carry the Wh gene - I couldnt tell so wouldn't take the risk to be honest. That said he is now nearing three and as active as a young thing. I think the general advice to not breed is sound though, as many hamster owners are younger people who will just think that it will be 'fun' without considering all the implications or the lives they are creating.
As you know I, along with some breeders and judges had a long hard look (and cuddle) with Aero on Saturday, and at this stage she looks a fine robust and healthy girl. Hamsters in general as you've said, are quite genetically robust compared to some animals (again I dont know rat genetics, so can't comment there). I think that if other experienced breeders, judges etc. would be happy to lend you a stud male and to show an interest in the progeny, they are quite satisfied that Aero would produce healthy offspring.

Incidentally, if it were me, I would go with Kookai, and maybe think of Longname for a second generation possibly. A proven hamster with good size and type will I think be a good sire for Aero.

Also incidentally, incidentally, our P@H had some blacks and doves in on Sunday - it looks like their breeders are producing a lot of those colours! (and no - I didnt
:x )

[Hanlou]

I'm guessing that, given your previous posts, you maybe don't totally feel ok about the hamster exhibition/breeding world and would prefer us to be maybe rescuing the poor hamsters out there that need homes

No Julie, this isn't the case, but no offence taken! :wink:

I'm not an 'adopt don't breed' person. If that were the case, where would the hamster world end up? There would be no-one to 'improve' the well-being of hamsters as truly good breeders do and the pedigrees built up would be lost entirely.I sincerely believe that a good breeder is important though similar to you feel it is vital whoever is doing have a good background knowledge etc. I have three rats myself from a reputable breeder - someone I know and trust. I actually got to see her home when I picked the ratties up which was lovely and my three rats came with their own 'pedigrees'! True, they are my first ever 'breeder rats' but I don't feel guilty about this. :D

I would love a pair of Robo' hamsters in the future and whilst I would like to rescue some, a lot of Robo's are singletons in rescue so I would certainly consider getting a pair from a good Robo' breeder. Plus I would have them from being babies, they'd be well handled and everything else. We'll see I guess! (I have made myself promise that we'll wait at least until after our hols in April to get my Robo/s!)

I have been to a rat show in the past too.

Thank you for explaining things a bit more. I don't think there is a shortage of rats of good lineage so maybe there is a much wider gene pool and rats are sadly anything but robust so history is certainly very important in the rat world as they seem so susceptible to so many different things. :(

Both of these factors are interesting, as I really *don't* know enough about the hamster world.

It does make a lot of sense to breed a pet shop hamster to a good pedigree hamster (and indeed I should think that this is how a good many of the ratty varieties we now have came about originally too!) and yes of course there are lots of other things such as recessives etc to be taken into consideration.

The age-thing is interesting too, though I think 6 months is the ideal age for a ratty to be bred from too.

Many thanks for answering my question and satisfying my curosity a little - and indeed for helping me to learn a little more about the hamster world! Because having Herbert come to live with us has opened up my eyes as to what endearing little animals these really are. (Even if he is hyperactive!) :D

I have looked at the show dates near us but they always seem to fall on the Saturday I work (I work every other Saturday) and of course though John is soft with animals I'm not sure how he'd feel about a whole show, lol. But we'll see! :wink:

[Mollz]

I too think that it is important that the majority of people believe that it is very bad to breed pet shop hamsters together and would never condone breeding two petshop hamsters.

However, I think you are doing the right thing by breeding Aero, Julie, (and I may have my eyes on an "Aero bubble"). She is such a rare colour, and of course you will know the history of the little boy who is no doubt from one of the best breeders/exhibitors around (who is it you are going to borrow him from?). Are you going to attempt to get dove standardised? I was there when Chris told you to breed her and know that others have said the same.

[Gust0o]

Yes, Gus - there definitely will be some "Aero Bubbles" available.

Very tempted! I just need to behave, and ply the wife with wine.

It's obvious you've put a lot of thought and effort into this, which is why I'd feel comfortable asking :)

[Hanlou]

Just for the record, lol, I wasn't attempting to condemn Julie for breeding Aero (and if we were in the position to have another Syrian so soon I might be tempted too! ) - it's just that I have learnt one set of ethics for one species and wanted to know how it works in this one or at any rate, why there is such a difference. :)

I felt comfortable asking the question because this is the sort of forum that I felt would not 'leap' on me for asking, lol.

It really *is* a case of wanting to know, not wanting to judge.

Usually with an animal I like and am thinking about having I do lots of research but Herbert just sort of 'ended up' with us so I knew nothing about hamsters before we had him. I'm just trying to catch up!

[Spuds Mum]

Hopefully you don't feel 'flamed' or 'jumped on' Hanlou. I would hate if any post I had made left anyone feeling this way.

It is different with different species of course, and just think of some of the problems caused by breeding either to reach an unhealthy standard (for example in the dog world with daschunds, pekes and more, cats with persian etc) that I think it is right to be curious.

I think we pride ourselves (hopefully :wink: ) on this forum in being able to say what we think, and ask questions in a tactful and enquiring manner. And answering in the same vein hopefully.

I wouldn't know where to start with ratties, and no doubt would be asking very similar questions on a rattie forum if I were ever to get one!

the only thing I would say generally, is that the written word of course can be very 'bald' and without tone of voice, inflections and non-verbals etc. what is meant in one way can come across to another person in totally another way. It is something we all need to be aware of I think when posting. Sometimes something I have written myself, seems to take on a whole new meaning once I re-read it!! :oops: :roll: and I have apologised to people in case they took it another way, then they apologise to me etc. lol

**just to be clear - lol - said in a friendly tone with a smile on my face as I am typing :D :D

[Holly]

I must admit, Hanlou, I did think you were "having a go" at me - just a little. I guess it's your previous strong views on other issues that might have made me (and maybe others?) think that.

I haven't got a problem with anyone having a go at my decision to mate Aero. I'm totally comfortable with the decision and I'm obviously going to listen to the excellent and invaluable advice I've had from the experienced NHC judges and breeders over any random person on an internet forum!

I have no qualms about my decision and no qualms about posting about it on this forum where people are generally open to the opinions of others and where many people understand the workings of the hamster show and breeding world. I would, however, think twice about posting about it on other forums where one of two things might happen:

a) The hamster police would jump down my throat 'cos, after all, "you can't breed pet shop hamsters" (along with all the other things they repeat by rote without truly understanding them :roll: ).

b)Some random kid would think oh yeah I'm going to do that with my friend's hamster :?

I've no wish to cause a row so I'll stick to discussing it here where people are allowed to hold different views!

[Gust0o]

It's a Monday, which goes a long way to explaining why people might have got the wrong end of the stick :)

[Hanlou]

Lol, the whole 'not hearing the tone of voice' thing is often a forum problem isn't it? 'Tis why I like smilies so much... :D

See? They help don't they? :wink:

I thought long and hard about whether to ask because of how it may come across / what other people would think I was wanting, but thought that it's better to be a fool for five minutes than a fool for life, so thought why not ask, as this is the kind of forum I felt I *could* ask on. Which is a compliment to the forum I guess. :)

I really was pondering on what to say / how to put it whilst I was vacuuming up the house! (with chinchillas it's an ongoing task, oh, and with Tinkerbell's recent discovery of being able to chuck aubiose all over the top of the stairs it's now even harder to keep the house looking semi-decent! :lol:)

I didn't want to come across as judgmental (as, indeed, that isn't how I feel!) but felt that Julie was someone I could ask without it being an 'issue'.

No I don't feel leapt on. Just was making sure people did know I had only the motives of curosity and well, wanting to learn about breeding ethics I suppose.

I am not an extremist in any respect, perhaps my views on some matters (such as buying animals from pet shops) have been largely shaped by the rat fancy, which is, as I am rapidly learning, very different to the hamster world. Which perhaps I need to remember too. :wink:

Julie, I knew you wouldn't mind being asked, which is why I asked. I'm only 'me' and I know very little about breeding anything (hopeless with genetics, truly hopeless!) so would not question decisons like this anyway. Apologies if I seemed to be having a go though. But I wasn't. :D

I look forward to hearing more about Aero and perhaps to seeing a picture of the lucky bloke hamster who will be her beloved for a night! :wink:

[Mollz]

Just wanted to make it clear that I wasn't "jumping on" or "flaming" you either Hanlou :wink: That is the only rpoblems with forums/emails. I sometimes spen ages re-reading and re-typing a message before posting and it still sounds harsh!
I do think that smilies are very useful and do enjoy using them :D

I also feel that some hamster forums would react very differently about Julie breeding Aero and they would probably start a witch hunt on her immediately (not calling you a witch Julie :x )

[Spuds Mum]

not calling you a witch Julie :x )

Now are you sure about that Molly? :x

I think when you first posted here Mollz there was something I said on a post that I thought later might come across a bit harsh, and so I did another post, and then you apologised as you thought I was meaning you were harsh (I think that was you wasn't it?) and we ended up both apologising to each other over again lol.

Actually that's the story of my life lately. I spend a lot of time saying sorry for everything under the sun..... It snowed today? Oh I'm sorry.
Gosh I hate customer complaints :roll: :x

[Holly]

Ha!

I wouldn't mind if you did call me a witch - at the risk of being controversial here I actually think they are a misunderstood lot and (at the risk of appearing slightly bonkers - again) I have a recurring nightmare of drowning whilst being tied to a chair so have often wondered if I was drowned as a witch in a previous life.

I guess, being an old spinster with a cat, hamsters and piggies who grows herbs and veggies and is interested in alternative medicines, I need to be glad they don't still drown or burn "witches" :roll:

[Hanlou]

Aw Mollz, bless ya, don't worry! :D

You didn't come across in that way at all. It's just that I wanted people to know my intentions and that I'm not a stirring-and-extremist sort of person, 'cos I'm not. I'm really very shy! But I like to know about things like this, even though I never intend to breed.

Knowing more about things is good, it broadens your horizons and gives you a fresh perspective. For me, knowing more about how things are in the 'hamster world' has probably helped me to get a much better overview.

Julie, I've met some very pleasant and friendly Druids, but that's another story.....

Anyway, generally speaking (or typing!) if my views in other things have upset people I am sorry, I didn't intend to.

{{{{Group hugs everyone}}}} :D

[Gust0o]

Is this a first for Hamster Central? A confession that we have a witch - well, at least as far as Anthony Hopkins was ever concerned?! :x

I wouldn't worry Hanlou - I'm pretty forthright in my views; and can be a very blunt character - but this is the one place where I could never imagine that being an issue.

A very satisfying development :)

[Mollz]

not calling you a witch Julie :x )

Now are you sure about that Molly? :x

I think when you first posted here Mollz there was something I said on a post that I thought later might come across a bit harsh, and so I did another post, and then you apologised as you thought I was meaning you were harsh (I think that was you wasn't it?) and we ended up both apologising to each other over again lol.

Actually that's the story of my life lately. I spend a lot of time saying sorry for everything under the sun..... It snowed today? Oh I'm sorry.
Gosh I hate customer complaints :roll: :x

LOL, yes that was me Teresa. I didn't find what you had said offensive, so thought you must have meant me - and then felt terrible as I presumed I'd upset you! Things can get so confusing :roll:

I don't care whether anyone is a witch, and actually know a very nice one, the same as I don't mind which religeon they are. However I didn't want you to think I was saying that you were old/haggard/strange - as you are not! I think I am digging myself even deeper into a hole :roll:

Anyway - I think we have all gathered that no one is meaning to be offensive to anyone else.
I will join in your group hug Hanlou {{{{{{Group Hug!!}}}}}}

[Mollz]

Silly double posts :roll:

[Jane]

I havn't read the whole thread because I'm lazy and tired :lol: but yaaay! It's good to hear there's another dove around the forum ;) Charlie is happy now :D

[souffle]

Charlie wants to have a hamhug with Aero :oops: :lol: :lol:

[Holly]

Aero is now about 10 weeks old and she weighs 132g - which isn't a lot less than most of my own litter at 10 weeks! She's grown a lot and still looks (I think!) quite pretty though her face looks less broad the more she grows. If I am going to breed from her then I think the very nice type Dove from Carrington will be my best bet. She's still as sweet in nature as when we got her - just more daring than ever now!

Here she is tonight:

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o209/Holly_Day/IMG_6664.jpg

[Mollz]

I swear that girl gets cuter every time I see her!

What a sweet face she has, and I am definitely no expert, but she doesn't look like she has bad type. Can't wait until this girl grows a bit more.

Are you going to try to get dove standardised Julie? You need three generations to prove that and just to prove that they breed true don't you?

[Spuds Mum]

Ahh she really is a beauty Julie, I am so taken with her (and she was nearly taken by me at Alcester) she is growing into a very pretty young lady.

Its really nice that she has such a nice temperament and has done since the start too - a very special P@H lovely.

Just one thing though - tell Will from me he should use a pen with paper not with his hand! :wink: Bless him! :x

[Holly]

Thanks you two - we love her and still can't believe how lucky (fated?) we were to find her that day :shock:



Are you going to try to get dove standardised Julie? You need three generations to prove that and just to prove that they breed true don't you?

I'm not sure I'm up to that really after talking about it to Andrew Bryan - I'm sure there are others with more Doves than me that could do it better/quicker and I'm not sure if I'd need to breed a son back to mum or something like that to prove they breed true - something I probably wouldn't want to do :?

I really can't understand why this colour (as well as Mink) hasn't been standardised already.


Just one thing though - tell Will from me he should use a pen with paper not with his hand! Bless him!

Well I will do - but that's actually Josh who's here for a sleepover and who's helped with all the hams tonight :P

[Basia]

Ah, she's lovely Holly. She has such a sweet face. :)

[nooboo]

she is a beauty and dont worry i wont be offended if you want to use sheryls Kookai! he is a bigger ham than dorodoroke and a better type, poor little doro, but doro has fathered some good litters, like that which included chilton you saw at the show.

in your situation i would try kookai first, he is a little old, me and sheryl where discussing, so should any issues arise you know you are welcome dorodoroke at any time as a back up! if everything goes smoothly then you can always keep a good female from the litter to use with doro, though hopefully by then i will have a few more doves myself! and may be wanting to steal one of that kookai litter if possible too :P

oh and its easier to call him doro if you cant remember dorodoroke, doro means muddy...so no offense if his name is mud to u.

its terrible they are non standard same with mink, and my other fav blue mink...still they are working on t, hopefully they will soon be in main show, as well as the little roborovski! the standards committee may as well try to sort them all out :D

[Holly]

she is a beauty and dont worry i wont be offended if you want to use sheryls Kookai! he is a bigger ham than dorodoroke and a better type, poor little doro, but doro has fathered some good litters, like that which included chilton you saw at the show.

in your situation i would try kookai first, he is a little old, me and sheryl where discussing, so should any issues arise you know you are welcome dorodoroke at any time as a back up! if everything goes smoothly then you can always keep a good female from the litter to use with doro, though hopefully by then i will have a few more doves myself! and may be wanting to steal one of that kookai litter if possible too :P


Ha! I can't believe this Noo but I drafted an email to you this morning asking exactly that (I couldn't remember Doro's name much less how to spell it so I wanted to ask Teresa tonight :oops: ).

I was hoping you would say I could pair him up with one of the girls from the Aero/Kookai litter - that would give me wonderful colour and coat combinations as well as, hopefully, the superb temperament of Chilton who I met last week 8)

I'd be delighted if you'd like a little one from the Aero/Kookai litter - I need to ask Sheryl if she's wanting any but you are welcome to one as well. I'll only be able to keep one or two of them myself.


its terrible they are non standard same with mink, and my other fav blue mink...still they are working on t, hopefully they will soon be in main show, as well as the little roborovski! the standards committee may as well try to sort them all out :D


Oooh how exciting, I'd love to see all of the colours in the meain show. I've quite enjoyed showing Toby (our LH Mink) in Non-Standard but it seems odd that such an established and well known colour should be there.

And robos too - wow! :)

Seeing your name here reminds me that I must sort out my entries for next weekend!