PDA

View Full Version : Winter White Breeder


tibbi64
02-09-2012, 08:22 AM
I wish there was a winter white breeder near where I live. :( I live in South Georgia.

Gibbs&JackBlack
02-09-2012, 08:35 AM
Have you done a Google search or contacted a breeder in a neighboring state? Sometimes they know of people that may not be listed anywhere public.
I was happily shocked to find a breeder in my own city that has a very good reputation. I follow his facebook page now to see what he has available.

tibbi64
02-09-2012, 09:22 AM
Have you done a Google search or contacted a breeder in a neighboring state? Sometimes they know of people that may not be listed anywhere public.
I was happily shocked to find a breeder in my own city that has a very good reputation. I follow his facebook page now to see what he has available.

I have done a google search, no luck yet. I will try searching facebook next. :) I called a neighboring town and they said they get theirs from a local breeder but don't know when they will get anymore...

Hamtastic
02-09-2012, 10:11 AM
There are only two pure winter white breeders in the U.S., one is in California (AAA Hamsters) and the other is in Ohio (Holmden Hill Haven).

S.C.F.C
02-09-2012, 09:37 PM
There are only two pure winter white breeders in the U.S., one is in California (AAA Hamsters) and the other is in Ohio (Holmden Hill Haven).

im sure there are more than two pure winter white breeders here! I was getting a family of WW but i really wasn't to interested in them anymore

Hamtastic
02-10-2012, 01:41 AM
Well, if there's some rogue unannounced breeder out there, it's great, but credibility is going to be an issue. If you want to be sure, those two people are the ones to ask, and they keep up on what's going on with winter white lines in the U.S. I would imagine if there were another, they'd be known, as it takes serious effort to import enough purebred winter whites with credible pedigrees and start a breeding program that they'd do some networking in the U.S. to announce their effort.

Mikayla
02-10-2012, 07:52 PM
im sure there are more than two pure winter white breeders here! I was getting a family of WW but i really wasn't to interested in them anymore

I'm going to be blunt and slightly rude here.

No, there isn't. They will have a 98% chance of being hybrid and the breeder will not have the 'correct' care for them in most cases.

Gibbs&JackBlack
02-11-2012, 08:01 AM
So if I see some in a pet store, are they probably hybrids?

Hamtastic
02-11-2012, 08:10 AM
Unless it's a store those two breeders supply, yes. Yes if it's a chain store.

radiocricket
02-11-2012, 12:44 PM
Unfortunately everything that's been said about pure WW in the US is true. Myself and AAA Hamsters in California are the only breeders in the US with pure lines. AAA Hamsters brought her hamsters back personally from Russia. While she was purchasing them, she also had Campbells in her possession and all the breeders she was buying the WW from were actually yelling at her telling her she couldn't breed the WW to the Campbells they saw her holding. Hearing that, she knew they were pure WW. My WW came from AAA's lines and I imported some from a long time UK breeder that AAA recommended to me. That breeder also told me their lines were pure as far as they knew. We've never had anything turn up in our litters to make us think otherwise.

Other than myself and AAA, there are no WW breeders in the US working with pure lines as they have no source for pure hamsters. If they didn't get them from AAA or I (and no one has), nor imported from other respectable breeders, then the chances are just too high that there's hybridization in their background. All the other "WW breeders" in the US got their hamsters from pet stores or other breeders whose lines go back to commercial stock. Unfortunately, there aren't enough good breeders in the US. I can count all the good breeders on one hand. We have more "middle/poor" breeders out there than good. What's worse is these "middle/poor" breeders can talk a good game and people new into the fancy just wouldn't know any better. Just saying that one's lines are pure isn't enough- you have to be able to take them back to their origin, which these breeders can't do. Or if they say they can, you have to look at their reputation in the fancy. Thankfully the forums are out there to help distinguish between them all.

-Janice

Gibbs&JackBlack
02-11-2012, 08:25 PM
Not being snarky at all, but just wanting to learn-if I'm not a breeder or care about showing my hams, is there a reason I would NOT want to buy a hybrid winter white? If I just like how it looks and want it for a pet is it a big deal?
Not trying to make what you do sound less important at all! Just trying to be sure there isn't anything wrong health-wise with a hybrid winter white.

Hamtastic
02-11-2012, 09:25 PM
Health is the main issue with hybrids. Because hybridization between Campbells and Winter Whites (they are different species, not just different colors of one) is not genetically advantageous for the offspring, you end up with babies that have obvious health defects (such as missing limbs) or more subtle health problems, like internal or neurological disorders. Predisposition to diabetes is also passed on to the winter white hybrids from Campbells. It's probably not as bad as crossing a zebra with a donkey, but it's still bad on the same principle. Just because cross-breeding is possible, it doesn't mean it should be done.

As far as what you get from chain pet stores in the U.S., those hamsters are already affected by inbreeding, poor food quality and nutritional value, poor conditions, and not breeding for health and quality. On top of that you get the hybridization (for winter whites and campbells). So you end up with hamsters that have a high risk for diabetes (or already come home with you having diabetes), likely shorter life spans, and predisposition to some other health problems, bad temperament being a lighter one.

kyrilliondaemon
02-11-2012, 09:30 PM
Hamtastic said most of what I was trying to word, but I'd just like to draw your attention to Erin's hamster Pippy. She's one of the less fortunate hybrids.
Here is their video, which shows just some of what Pippy goes through on a regular basis.

4hjLoyLhfH0

Hamtastic
02-11-2012, 09:33 PM
Fluffymunchkin's Treo only has 3 legs--he was born like that.

I just want to add though: if you do buy a winter white from a pet shop, chances are it will be okay. You will have to watch its diet (avoid sugars from any sources), but there is always a good chance that it will live a decent life without noticeable defects. But there's also a chance that something will come up at some point in its life. My Lucy has kidney failure that she developed before she was even one year old. I can't tell if it's something due to genetic health problems that led to it or another cause, but she is a hybridized pet shop winter white.

kyrilliondaemon
02-11-2012, 09:48 PM
Yeah, our four are ok so far, but they're only eight months old. No reason to expect them to develop problems, but there is a higher risk of them doing so than any of our other hamsters.

Am glad we have the russians because they're wonderful pets, but won't be buying "russians" again, having learnt what Pippy goes through I can't do it. Will adopt/rescue, but can't buy them again.

So yeah, if you wish to purchase, go for it, it'll be adorable, get loads of "awww" comments e.t.c and hopefully live as healthily as any other hamster, just be aware that there are increased health risks and its a practice possibly worth thinking twice about supporting.

KatiePillow
02-12-2012, 06:17 AM
I think hybrids can have shorter life spans, I lost my sandy to something wrong inside her, so I'd prefer to buy a breeder hamster, or rescue in future (because with a rescue you don't necessarily expect a two year lifespan)

Sandy and Pillow are hybrids, and they both are pretty much ok compared to my old hamster alfie

His limbs weren't the right length for his body, his head was the wrong shape, he went blind, had cateracts, had numerous eye infections, a stroke, a tumour (which I think spread throughout his body). His life was full of struggles, and although he was the most wonderful little man, I would never want another hamster to struggle that way, that's why hybrid breeding isn't recommended. They make beautiful pets, but you don't know how their children would turn out. And if you breed pets and their offspring is unwell, then you're condemning their pups to a life of misery.

fluffymunchkins
02-12-2012, 06:44 AM
Unfortunately, for many hybrids are the only option for now. We can hope in time winter white breeders will become more wide spread :)

Fluffymunchkin's Treo only has 3 legs--he was born like that.

I just want to add though: if you do buy a winter white from a pet shop, chances are it will be okay. You will have to watch its diet (avoid sugars from any sources), but there is always a good chance that it will live a decent life without noticeable defects. But there's also a chance that something will come up at some point in its life.

I couldn't agree more with this :) i would never judge someone who chose to have a hybrid and I never regret having Treo. There are many members of the forum with healthy hybrids and loving pets. However, as a breeder in the long run I would like to see the support of hybrids in pet shops decrease. If you are unlucky to have a hybrid such as Treo (though I chose him myself, well aware of the risks) then it can be heartbreaking to see their life span shortened so dramatically. Treo has cost the most in vet bills also.

So although hybrids will likely always exist, its best to educate on the risks involved with hybrids so people can be prepared. And encourage those with access to breeders to buy from them :) x

Gibbs&JackBlack
02-12-2012, 09:19 AM
Thanks for the info-very helpful.
I asked because we got a winter white from a pet store (first pet we EVER bought from a pet store) because it was the first time they had them and my daughter really wanted one.
I was weak because I wanted one too.
She "seemed" healthy but only lasted 1 mos and then we found her curled in a ball and she passed away. This was just this week. We had lost another hamster right before we got this one so it was really freaking me out that we lost 2 in such a short timeframe. I never gave her sugary treats and picked all the corn from her food but I wonder what happened to her. Her cage conditions were good (20 gal long cage) and I was so surprised when she passed because she was running on her wheel just a few hours before.
We have a breeder (syrians and campbells) here in town with a good rep that I think I will stick with from now on.

kyrilliondaemon
02-12-2012, 10:49 AM
Ah... I'm sorry to hear you had a bad experience with a hybrid :(

Good idea sticking to the breeder in future though, hopefully those hamsters do much better with you :)