View Full Version : Litter expected 22/01/08!
Yaffle
01-17-2008, 06:13 AM
Hi everyone,
For those of you that read my intro, you'll know I'm expecting my first litter of syrians next Tuesday and I wanted your opinion on the best bedding material to use in the breeding cage.
Yeti (mum) currently has wood shavings and then safe paper bedding for her nest, but I was wondering if I should switch to CareFresh on the final clean out as it will have to last much longer than usual and I know it's more absorbent? At the same time I don't want to stress her out as she's never had it before and I'm not sure whether it's as comfy/good to make a nest out of. What do you think???
Having said that, I'm not entirely convinced that Yeti is actually pregnant! It's the 11th day now and I do think she's put on weight but I just don't want to get too excited and then be all disappointed! Any pointers on what I should be looking for as an indicator that she is pregnant?
Thanks guys!
souffle
01-17-2008, 06:18 AM
You don't usually see the bulge at the back till about 3-4 days before birth and also more prominant and redder nipple lines. Her behaviour will likely change too. Sometimes nothing changes and you are surprised by squeaks!
I would put in the usual shavings but what we do is pile cagefresh in the wee corner. It is easy to scoop out and sprinkle new in when needed. After you clean the cage put a little old bedding backto settle her too and then dont handle her till after the pups are around 10days.
Good luck
Holly
01-17-2008, 07:08 AM
I'd also stick with what she knows at this stage - shavings will be fine (whatever you use will get a bit mingy anyway!). If you put carefesh in the wet corner for a bit of extra absorbency that might help a bit - or she might nick it for her nest! Then she might change her mind...then change it back again :P
Having said that, I'm not entirely convinced that Yeti is actually pregnant! It's the 11th day now and I do think she's put on weight but I just don't want to get too excited and then be all disappointed! Any pointers on what I should be looking for as an indicator that she is pregnant?
As souffle said, it's usual not to see much, if any, difference in them at eleven days. This is my Caramel a couple of days before she gave birth to a litter of eleven - she just looks a bit rounder all over and, a day or two before that, she didn't look any different at all really and I'd about convinced myself she wasn't pregnant!
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o209/Holly_Day/IMG_5436.jpg
Souffle told us about the "water wings" they often develop as the big day approaches - big bulges behind the shoulders - she definitely had those but not until a couple of days before:
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o209/Holly_Day/IMG_5435.jpg
Good luck with them, it's very exciting :)
Spacemonkey
01-17-2008, 08:34 AM
This is a picture of my Bailey 2 days before she gave birth, not the best pic in the world as I took it with my camcorder, but you can see her bulges on either side. We think shes had 10 (not had a proper count yet!)
http://www.furrycritters.co.uk/Gallery2/d/12985-1/DVC00284.JPG
Good luck with your babies :wink:
Spuds Mum
01-17-2008, 02:24 PM
Go Yeti!! :D :D
I'd stick with what she knows Claire, although I like Souffles idea for the loo corner - may try that next time.
We usually stick to the safe paper bedding too - even though we usually use normal tissue paper for our other hams - The tiny bits mean that there is less likelihood I think of tiny pups getting caught up/strangled etc in longer pieces.
I'm not going to post pics of my pregnant hams Claire, you've seen them on my site, and though bramble went round as a ball, Princess and BB were harder to call.
I cant wait for Tuesday! and hopefully to get a full update a week on Saturday.
Yaffle
01-18-2008, 06:10 AM
Thanks for the pics and advice, will just leave her with the woodshavings.
After last night I'm pretty sure that she is expecting now, she's starting to display typical behaviour. For example when I went to feed her last night she'd made a massive big nest and when I went to check on her a couple of hours later she'd wrecked it and completley trashed her cage! She's never made such a big nest or been so destructive before so I'm hoping it's a sign!
Spuds Mum
01-18-2008, 11:03 AM
so only a few days for pinkie arrival time hopefully! It sounds as though she is expecting. I'm feeling a bit 'hamster broody myself!
So in a few days there may be some tiny little Yaffies or Yeffles to hear about - is it cinnamon and possible dark greys you are expecting Claire? :x
Yaffle
01-21-2008, 02:02 AM
Hello,
I'm now 95% sure that Yeti is expecting, did her final cage clean yesterday and she definately has a massive bulge and her nipples are really prominent now too, so hopefully the little pinkies should arrive some time over the next couple of days. Yes, I'm expecting long haired cinammon and dark greys!
souffle
01-21-2008, 02:47 AM
Good luck Yeti. Hope all goes well with the patter of tiny paws! :lol:
Holly
01-21-2008, 06:38 AM
Oooh exciting - baby hams! Good luck and keep us posted :)
Spuds Mum
01-22-2008, 01:37 PM
hmmm Arti and I are wondering whether Yeti is now a Mummy Big Foot?? So exciting - but I am sure that Claire (Yaffle) is doing something more interesting tonight than browsing the net! :x
Hope everything is going okay.
Yaffle
01-23-2008, 01:59 AM
Morning everyone,
As you know I was expecting Yeti to have her pups last night, I woke up this morning and nothing yet, although I'm still convinced that she's pregnant! Today is day 17 so I'm hoping there'll be a nice surprise waiting for me when I get home from work, if not I'll start to worry! Is it common for pregnancies to last into the 17th day?
Holly
01-23-2008, 02:28 AM
Well I've only had one litter so I'm no expert but I wasn't sure Caramel had had hers the morning after they were expected - obviously you can't look in the nest at all at this stage and when I saw her come out for a drink she still looked quite round from all the extra food and had covered them completely with bedding. I didn't hear any squeaks until the next day. So are you sure she hasn't had them?
I don't know if it's normal for them to go any longer - I'm sure someone here will though.
souffle
01-23-2008, 04:45 AM
They can go into the 17th day and even into the middle of the night especially if it was a very late evening mating. If she does not deliver the pups by day 18 and still looks very rounded I would take her to the vets in case there is a stuck pup preventing her giving birth. If she is not round anymore and you see or hear no pups she may have culled them but I hope this is not the case. If she seems well and not rounded and keeps returning to the nest I would say all is well and she is nursing them. They may just be quiet content little babies and the chirps are quite infrequent and quiet at first so if she has buried them deep they are likely muffled. They tend to reach a crescendo when mum has been out and goes back in the nest and the all clamour for milk! I hope you get your surprise when you come in and look forward to the good news.
Yaffle
01-23-2008, 08:15 AM
The babies are here!!!!!
Panic over phew!
Yeti must have given birth some time this morning between 8am and 9am as nothing had happened when I left for work at 8am (she was just having a bite to eat) and Neil (that's my boyfriend) checked before he left at 9am and thought he heard a squeak! He emailed me in work and got me all excited. Luckily I had the afternoon off for a dentist appointment (a filling and it hurt but I'm sure if Yeti can give birth I can cope with a filling!). I got home about 1pm and she was asleep on top of her nest. There was a small amount of blood on the bedding (nothing to worry about) and then I heard a squeak! Yeti was half asleep and didn't seem to mind me being there at all so I stayed for a couple of minutes and caught a glimpse of one of the pups suckling...so cute!
I then left for the dentist and Neil came home (who incidentally also had the afternoon off to get his car fixed - expensive month!) and Yeti was awake when he checked on her. Again she was really calm (possibly because she isn't a first time Mum, she had a litter with Sheryl at Carrington Hams before she came to me) and when she lifted herself up Neil actually saw the pups! He said on a very quick count there seemed to be at least 6 but probably more. I'm really excited, although a bit gutted she showed her pups to Neil and not me! :lol:
Planning to just leave her to it tonight now she must be so tired, but looks like she's doing an excellent job and nothing to worry about so I'm really pleased.
Will keep you all posted x
Basia
01-23-2008, 09:03 AM
Aw congratulations, that's really good news. :D
Look forward to regular updates!
souffle
01-23-2008, 09:37 AM
Aww fantastic news. Welcome to the world little hammies. She sounds like she is doing great at I look forward to hearing a new baby diary start up :lol: :lol: :lol:
Holly
01-23-2008, 10:13 AM
Brilliant news! Many congratulations - hope you'll keep us posted with their progress :)
Spuds Mum
01-23-2008, 11:19 AM
Congratulations! :x Fantastic news.
It sounds as though Yeti is doing wonderfully and is being a very laid back Mum.
I'm sure that you will see and hear more in the days to come, though you will probably find that Yeti is only interested in leaving her brood for good food and a drink. She'll need all those extra calories with at least 6 extra mouths to feed.
Keep us posted. Arti and I will also want a full update on Saturday! :x :x
Mollz
01-23-2008, 12:56 PM
Congratulations - how exciting :D
jayne
01-23-2008, 01:00 PM
Fantastic news!
Hope they are all doing well and look forward to pictures when you can get them
babyboos
01-23-2008, 05:51 PM
our next generation on Hamster Central - how exciting!
Yaffle
01-25-2008, 12:14 PM
Hi all,
Yeti is making a wonderful Mum and is very laid back about the whole thing. At a first count it looked as though she'd had six pups, but I think the first estimate may have been a bit conservative! I went to give her some scrambled egg last night and as soon as I put the bowl down for her, she climbed off her nest and came over to me to say hello, whilst she was eating I managed to get a peek into the nest as she hadn't covered it over and I think she's had more like 9 or 10 pups! They are absolutely gorgeous!
Hopefully in a few days time I'll be able to get some pics of them and as soon as I do I'll post them. I'm really excited about what colours they'll be, I'm thinking as both parents are L/H cinammon I should definately get some cinammon, but they also carry the dark grey gene so I'm hoping for some dark grey too, probably all L/H.
I'll keep you all updated anyway and I'll see some of you at the Show tommorrow!
Mollz
01-25-2008, 12:37 PM
It's great to hear that Yeti is being a good mum and everything has gone well so far. Can't wait to see pictures, just make sure that you don't rush anything and disturb Yeti.
Keep us posted and I hope that things continue to go as well as they have so far :D
souffle
01-25-2008, 12:48 PM
Glad to hear they are doing so well. Hope to get an update tommorrow at Harrowgate.
Please read this before posting your pics Yaffle
http://www.hamstercentral.com/forum/vie ... php?t=2258 (http://www.hamstercentral.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2258)
Spuds Mum
01-25-2008, 12:53 PM
Hey! good news, glad Yeti is doing well. It is often said that there are usually twice what you originally think, so Im not surprised that she has more than 6.
Will get full update tomorrow, and also hopefully a cuddle with Minxie x
Yaffle
01-29-2008, 06:26 AM
Just a quick update on Yet's babies...
They're all doing absolutely fine, I've given up counting them for now because every time I try I get a different number!
They are all getting really big now (they've grown loads since the photo's some of you saw at the show) and their fur is starting to come through. I was speaking to Sheryl from Carrington Hams at the show and she has kindly agreed that she will help me sex the babies and decide who to keep when they are around 4 weeks although I can imagine it's going to be really hard saying goodbye to them, I love them all already!
I don't think it will be long now until they all start to wander from the nest so I'm sure I'll have some lovely stories to tell soon x
Holly
01-29-2008, 07:30 AM
That's good news, Yaffle - I'm one of thise who saw the pictures of the little ones at the weekend :wink:
Sheryl is, as you know, very knowledgeable - which show will you be bringing them to??
Spuds Mum
01-29-2008, 11:10 AM
I saw Yeti's 'bunch of pinkies' too at Harrogate :x
Glad they are doing well, and growing quickly. Keep it up Yeti! Can you see any differences in the colours yet Claire? Sheryl said you could easily be likely to see cinnamons and lilacs (yup I was asking about her litter :oops: ) but I dont know whether you would be able to tell the difference yet, not having had either of those colours.
1 week already - its so hard to believe! Has Yeti come out for cuddles and well done hugs yet? :x
Mollz
01-29-2008, 11:31 AM
Glad to hear that everything is going well and everyone seems healthy. Do you still have no idea how many they are?
Can't wait to see pictures once they are old enough!
Yaffle
01-30-2008, 06:18 AM
Hello,
Yeti hasn't come out to play yet since having the pups, I wasn't really sure at what point it would be ok? I think I'll probably let her out tonight for a cuddle and a go in her ball to stretch her legs. She tends to cover the nest completely and have a mad half hour about 10pm so I'll get her out then.
I'm still not really sure about their colours, they've all got a dark covering on their backs but I'm not sure if that's dark grey or the slate blue of the cinammon coming through. Saying that, I didn't really see them yesterday as I was out but I'll definately have a proper look tonight as I'm sure I should be able to tell by now.
They're all getting so big now, I can't believe how much they've grown in a week! I am slightly worried about one pup though who seems a bit smaller than it's brothers and sisters but I suppose there's nothing I can do for now apart from keep my eye on him.
As for how many there is I guess I won't be 100% sure until I clean out the cage next week bout I think 8/9 is about right.
I would really like to bring the pups to a show but I don't think I've timed it brilliantly, the next show I'm aware of is 15th March in Topcliffe, by which point they'll be about 7 and a half wks and probably mostly at their new homes by then :(
Do any of you know of any shows that are a bit closer that I could get to? I live near Liverpool so anywhere within a 2-3 hour drive would be ok? Alternatively, if any of you want to see the pups or are interested in taking one home (I have to ask lol!) I could always meet up with you at some point or you could come to Manchester when I take the pups to see Sheryl at Carrington!
Holly
01-30-2008, 06:37 AM
Glad they seem to be doing ok and I'm looking forward to seeing the colours also :)
The next show is Highworth on 23rd Feb - it's an SOE show and it's near Swindon in Wiltshire (I've looked on AA routefinder and it's about 3 and a quarter hours drive from Liverpool).
There's also another show the following weekend on the 1st March - that's at Alcester, Warwickshire (Midland) and it's approximately a 2 and a quarter hour drive for you.
HTH - I'll be at both and would love to see the babies :wink:
Yaffle
01-31-2008, 06:05 AM
Hi,
I get Yeti out last night for a bit as planned, she had a run in her ball and then a quick cuddle, but she seemed like she just wanted to get back to the babies!
Managed to get a good luck at the pups while she was out of the cage, it looks like all of the pups are cinammon although I think I'll be able to tell for sure in a couple more days. Definately no dark greys though as I'd be able to tell the difference I would imagine and they all look the same. Still a bit worried about the runt but will just have to keep fingers crossed.
I'm currently trying to convince Neil to take me to the Highworth show on 23rd Feb, the pups will be 4 and a half wks old then and I could possibly book the pups in as sales, but will have to wait and see because it is quite far for us! Is anyone else planning on going to the Highworth show?
souffle
01-31-2008, 08:08 AM
I don't think that is old enough for sales Yaffle. I think they need to be 5wks minimum but you could check. I would hesitate to take pups that young on such a long journey and expose them to disturbance and stress as it could lead to problems. Run them in single sex groups till at least 5 wks, preferably 6. If they are going to a known person you could let them go at 5wks.
Glad to hear they are doing well and looking healthy.
Mollz
01-31-2008, 01:49 PM
I think there are a few of us going to Highworth, I will be there as it is practically on my doorstep and I know Holly will be too as she is giving me my wodent wheel order there.
It's probably a good sign that she wanted to get back to the pups as it shows she is dedicated and concerned about them. You can't bring them to Highworth because I'll want to take them all home!!
souffle
01-31-2008, 03:09 PM
I have posted the schedule for Highworth Yaffle and it states babies for sale must be over 5weeks as I thought.
Holly
01-31-2008, 04:10 PM
You could maybe bring them to Alcester the week after - they'll be 5 and half weeks old by then which is allowed - and it's nearer for you.
After having one litter, I think I'd prefer to keep my babies together a bit longer and wouldn't really let them go before 6/7 weeks (unless to an experienced hamster person) but many people do seem to let them go at five weeks. Mine just seemed so much more robust after an extra week or two with their same-sex littermates.
Of course if it means the difference between them getting great homes or not (ie because of a show day) I don't know what I'd do. I've worked out, if all goes to plan, that my next litter will be 5 weeks old for Brockholes :?
Spacemonkey
01-31-2008, 09:03 PM
I always keep mine together in single sex groups till 6/7 weeks, by that time they are used to being in situations they will encounter when going to new homes - being on the bed/sofa/held/placed in exercise balls etc :wink:
Yaffle
02-01-2008, 02:01 AM
The minute I posted that last reply I checked the Highworth schedule and realised they wouldn't be old enough and besides, I don't really fancy the 3 hour drive so I don't think I'll bother with Highworth. I may go to Alcester, by then they'll be 5 nearly 6 wks old, I think it will all depend on how I feel the pups are at the time and whether or not they're ready. I've had pups come to me just before 5 wks and they've been fine but I would be reluctant to let them go at that age to someone who didn't have much experience with hamsters.
I got some really great pictures of them last night, their colours and markings are really starting to show now, they're definately all cinammon.
Holly
02-01-2008, 02:15 AM
Oooh I'm really looking forward to seeing some pictures! I know you can't post them here yet but do you have a website with them on?
jayne
02-01-2008, 02:48 AM
Great news about the babies!
Glad all is well and Yeti is doing you proud :D
Cant wait to see photos
Yaffle
02-01-2008, 06:51 AM
Unfortunately I don't have a website, I'm not as technically minded as I would like :oops: . But if you want to send me your email address I'll send you some photos over the weekend, I got some lovely ones last night whilst Yeti was out to play.
Also, I was reading last night that some breeders actually sprinkle porridge and finely chopped greens into the nest itself for the babies to lick off themselves and eat? Does anyone else do this? I thought I better check first!
Also, the pups are 9 days old now, when do u think I'll start to notice them making trips out of the next and starting to eat solids? I do ask a lot of questions but always appreciate your help!
Basia
02-01-2008, 07:02 AM
Mine started coming out at 11 days and Berry kept putting them back!
I didn't sprinkle food on the nest because Berry had a huge food store next to the nest which I could see the babies were nibbling at.
Holly
02-01-2008, 09:40 AM
My email address is
[email protected] - I'd love to see some pictures :)
souffle
02-01-2008, 10:07 AM
You can here them nibbling from about 5 days Yaffle. We put oatmeal and chopped nuts on the edge of the nest and they always snuffle over for it. They will be out very very soon. get in the baby food! They are very fond of baby spagetti hoops and sausage but do get orange but then they are already orange :lol: Put the food in a pringle lid. It is nice and low for them. With runts who usually hang about in the nest we put a bit on a teaspoon and give it to them to make sure they get a share. Log on to piczo and register you own site. It is free and easy as even old me can do it. Here is ours
www.custardhamstery.piczo.com (http://www.custardhamstery.piczo.com)
Basia
02-01-2008, 10:15 AM
Log on to piczo and register you own site. It is free and easy as even old me can do it. Here is ours
www.custardhamstery.piczo.com (http://www.custardhamstery.piczo.com)
I'll second that. I never thought I would be able to make a website but when Souffle and Pophammy recommended Piczo to Holly I decided to have a go too. It is actually quite fun. :D
Spuds Mum
02-01-2008, 10:39 AM
Glad to hear they are all fine Claire. I'm sure they will be absolutely beautiful. I've emailed you, if you want to send me baby pics..
go on send me pics...please!? :x
Holly
02-01-2008, 11:44 AM
It's true it's very easy! I was a complete pc no-hoper but I've really enjoyed making my Piczo site:
www.chocolate-hams.piczo.com (http://www.chocolate-hams.piczo.com)
Yaffle
02-02-2008, 01:04 PM
Hi everyone,
Bad news. I got home from work last night to find Yeti eating one of the pups and since last night she's eaten two more. I'm now down to 4 pups :cry:
I can't tell if they're dying and then she's eating them or if she's attacking them but it's not looking good.
When I got home last night, from what was left of the pup, it seemed to be one of the larger pups that had gone but the two since then have been the runt of the litter that I mentioned previously which I was already worried about and another slightly smaller one. The 4 that are left all look to be the largest and most active of the litter so I'm really hoping they'll be ok, although the last 24 hours have been so awful I really don't want to get my hopes up. I'm a nervous wreck every time I check on her so I've ended up coming to my Mums for the night so I don't dwell on it!
I really can't think why she would start attacking them at 10 days old, I thought we were out of the woods in terms of that, I'm just hoping that the ones that have died have been ill and that she isn't killing them and that she will continue to look after the remaining pups because they are so beautiful. The 4 that are left all seem to still be suckling and are eating little bits of greens and are very active and Yeti is still on the nest.
So far whenever I've seen her eating a pup I haven't removed it for fear that she'll kill another to replace it, was that the right thing to do? I've also noticed the pups eating the dead ones, again not sure if that is ok?
I'm absolutely heartbroke anyway, don't wanna go home in case another has gone, I'd hate to think Yeti had come so far to end up with no pups :(
Mollz
02-02-2008, 01:22 PM
Hi everyone,
Bad news. I got home from work last night to find Yeti eating one of the pups and since last night she's eaten two more. I'm now down to 4 pups :cry:
I can't tell if they're dying and then she's eating them or if she's attacking them but it's not looking good.
When I got home last night, from what was left of the pup, it seemed to be one of the larger pups that had gone but the two since then have been the runt of the litter that I mentioned previously which I was already worried about and another slightly smaller one. The 4 that are left all look to be the largest and most active of the litter so I'm really hoping they'll be ok, although the last 24 hours have been so awful I really don't want to get my hopes up. I'm a nervous wreck every time I check on her so I've ended up coming to my Mums for the night so I don't dwell on it!
I really can't think why she would start attacking them at 10 days old, I thought we were out of the woods in terms of that, I'm just hoping that the ones that have died have been ill and that she isn't killing them and that she will continue to look after the remaining pups because they are so beautiful. The 4 that are left all seem to still be suckling and are eating little bits of greens and are very active and Yeti is still on the nest.
So far whenever I've seen her eating a pup I haven't removed it for fear that she'll kill another to replace it, was that the right thing to do? I've also noticed the pups eating the dead ones, again not sure if that is ok?
I'm absolutely heartbroke anyway, don't wanna go home in case another has gone, I'd hate to think Yeti had come so far to end up with no pups :(
I am so sorry to hear this. In terms of removing the dead pups, I think you did the right thing as, like you say, it could have distressed Yeti more and also, although it sounds horrible, it will give her some much needed nutrients.
I have my fingers and toes crossed that all goes well and that all remaining babies survive, and you don't worry yourself too much.
My thoughts and prayers are with you, Yeti and the pups.
jayne
02-02-2008, 01:24 PM
I'm sorry to hear that :(
I have no experience of litters so i cant offer any advice but i'm sure one of the other members will be on soon to answer your questions.
Just remember though that it does happen and its not anyones fault, not yours,not Yeti's.
I have my fingers crossed for the remaining pups
souffle
02-02-2008, 01:26 PM
Aww Yaffle I am so sorry. Don't blame yourself or anything for it is just natures way and there is likely to have been something wrong that mum knew about and the pups would not have survived. I would recommend you don't take Yeti out at all but leave her with the remaining pups and up the protein level of your feeding. Lots of eggs, porridge, tofu etc and ensure the pups get some too so that if you need to take them off her they are already feeding well. I would remove a dead pup, even if they are eating it, with a spoon. It is normal and an instinct for them to dispose of a dead pup. We do not handle our females until we clean out the cage at 14 days plus even if they beg! With a stressy mum, and I would now say yours was stressy, we would leave them even longer to say 18 days.Don't worry and keep calm. This often happens with first time mums and you are never out of the woods till pups are living independently of mum.
Everything is crossed for your remaining little ones but do not be disappointed as remember mum knows best and she will do what she knows is right for the babies and sometimes she knows things that you do not so whatever she does is done from what is right and not anything meant maliciously.
Holly
02-02-2008, 01:37 PM
Oh Yaffle, I'm so sorry. As souffle says it is natures way of things and though killing and/or eating babies seems abhorent to us to a hamster it's normal and it's how they deal with weaker babies or how they "protect" the nest if babies die or they percieve a threat.
I'll also keep everything crossed for the remaining babies but if they don't survive, heartbreaking though it must be, remember that it's nature's way and it's nothing you have done :(
Spuds Mum
02-02-2008, 02:55 PM
Oh Claire, I am so sorry just got your email and read this post. Its nothing you have done, or not done, so try not to worry. I would just keep Yeti calm, feed her lots of good food as Souffle suggests, and hope that the rest make it. Try sprinkling some food around the nest too when feeding Yeti so that the pups are getting nutrition. It is natures way, and I am sure that Yeti has noticed something wrong with those pups that we dont know about. She's not a first time Mum so given a lot of peace and quiet she should (fingers crossed) take care of the remaining pups.
When Princess did this we just knew pups were disappearing but didnt see them being eaten. That must have been so distressing for you, but is perfectly natural. As ours just disappeared we didnt have the worry about whether to remove the bodies or not, but I wouldnt remove them myself until they were 'abandoned' ie that Yeti has left them.
When we had only 4 of Princesses pups left, one of them started to swell badly and its tummy was so swollen it looked like it was going to burst. We took the pup to the vets and it was pts. But the vet explained that this is one of the reason why animals have large litters, due to the chance of some not surviving.
It was quite hard not to hold it against Princess while it was going on, but after the pup was pts we thought maybe the other pups had similar problems.
Hope everything calms down and Yeti raises the rest of the litter without further incident, but unfortunately there is nothing you can do apart from give her peace, quiet and good food and hope.
Thinking of you and Neil x
I_am_plankton
02-03-2008, 03:14 AM
I am very sorry to hear of this, it is a horrible thing and I am sure that all you can think of is to ask but why.
I hope that the remaining pups survive.
Thinking of you x
babyboos
02-03-2008, 11:07 AM
this is dreadful when a mum turns at 10 days and I have lost a whole litter bar one to this before with first time mums
I end up with one, sometimes more as I intervene if it goes down that far but then I am happy hand rearing pups and at 10 days old they do have a good fighting chance but they are better off with mum for a few more days yet
If things settle down with the addition of lots of extra good complex carbs and protein in to the food dishes then leave them be, but do think long and hard if you ready to hand rear these wee ones and look into the accessibility of puppy or kitten formula - we use Sherley's Lactol - ask the local vet they often sell it loose as the smallest can does last ages
You can try adding some sprinkled on their food just now it can help to stabilise mum and get the babies used to it if you do need to remove them early.
Good luck I am thinking of you all
Basia
02-03-2008, 02:41 PM
Oh yaffle, how awful for you. I hope all goes well with the remaining pups.
Yaffle
02-04-2008, 06:22 AM
Hi everyone,
Thanks for your support and advice. Since my last post on Saturday night, Yeti hasn't lost any more pups and the remaining 4 seem to be coming on really well. Yeti appears to have calmed down lots and seems to be back to her old self. I haven't taken her out of the cage at all I've just tried to give her as much space as possible. She's getting lots of food and I've also been sprinkling softer foods in the nest too which the pups have been eating. I've also noticed the pups starting to wander from the nest and which point Yeti pulls them back and they are still suckling, so fingers crossed, after the awful weekend everything seems to be back on track. I'm now pretty sure that Yeti wasn't intentionally attacking the pups and that they must have been ill, which makes me feel much better about the whole thing.
I'm still a nervous wreck but everytime I count the 4 of them and see how well they're coming on I start to feel a bit better.
If the unthinkable did happen, at what point do you think I could safely remove the pups from Yeti, bearing in mind they are 12 days old today? Although I would love to hand rear them, it wouldn't really be possible as I work full time and I'm presuming they would need feeding every hour or so?
Thanks guys and keep your fingers crossed for my 4 little babies :wink:
souffle
02-04-2008, 07:19 AM
That is good news Yaffle. I think the remaining pups will be OK. I would say if you get them to 3weeks they would make it alone with the help of a heat pad maybe on low under the nest on the outside of the cage and some cleaning and maybe a little extra lactol droppered in at night if they seemed small. Hambelinski took her last pup away from mum at just over 3 weeks recently and she is doing great so yours would too. Any earlier and it is touch and go. Once their eyes are open and you see them using the water bottle they have a fighting chance. Make sure it is low enough so they can reach it and if you diid need to take them off her you could fill one with lactol and one water. You would also likely need to clean them with a cotton ball and stimulate them to wee if it was very early. She seems settled now so I don't think it will be needed. Don't take Yeti out again till the pups are out, eating & eyes open and you are sure they would be OK independantly. She will start to let them come out soon as she gets fed up dragging them back and they will be independant soon.
Best of luck and everything crossed for the foursome. :lol:
Holly
02-04-2008, 09:01 AM
That's really good news, Yaffle - I've been wondering how they are doing all weekend. I'm keeping everything crossed they'll make it, I know just how beautiful 12 day old hamsters are and I really hope it all goes ok now.
Mollz
02-04-2008, 10:59 AM
That's great news, I have my fingers crossed for the other pups.
Lets hope they all continue to thrive!
Spuds Mum
02-04-2008, 01:11 PM
Oh that's such great news. Thank goodness that things seem to have calmed down, long may it continue. I would say that you are almost there if you did need to separate the pups, but I think you will probably not need to now. When Princess settled down she became a fantastic Mum. As they are now eating solids and will soon wander more and more you just need to make sure they and Yeti get loads of good food.
I'm sure you are doing everything right, and Yeti did what she felt she had to do. Thinking that certainly helped me when Princess did the same as Yeti.
Thinking of you and hoping everything is okay from now.
Yaffle
02-05-2008, 06:33 AM
The babies are sooooo cute now! They all keep running out of the nest when Yeti isn't looking, she puts them back and two seconds later they make a run for it again! They're eating quite a lot now, they love cucumber, scrambled egg and porridge. One of the pups fell in the bowl of porridge last night, very funny, Yeti didn't seem impressed!
I've not seen any of them at the water bottle yet though, when do u think they should start drinking?
Also, they are 14 days old tommorrow and are due for a clean out, I was thinking of maybe leaving it a day or two longer, but do any of you have any tips on the best way to do things?
Also, now things seem to have settled down, I hope to get some pictures sent to Spuds Mum over the next day or so who has kindly said she will put them on her website for me :D
Spuds Mum
02-05-2008, 07:20 AM
Glad to hear they are doing well. It is so funny isn't it to see Mum losing her battle to control her children! When we have litters we do nothing else all evening apart from 'pup watch' :D
I wouldn't worry too much yet about the drinking bottle. From what I remember we noticed it a couple of days after their eyes open, so it should be any time soon.
Two weeks today! so hard to believe, what a roller coaster fortnight for you! I think you are right to leave the cleaning out a little longer. At the same time you will be able to hold the pups :D
We place Mum in her ball, then remove the pups to a carrier. Give a good clean out but retain half of the nest for mingling back with the new. Place the pups back before the Mum, and wait for them to calm and settle. Put lots of food in the bowl and place Mum back directly in front of it. x
souffle
02-05-2008, 08:36 AM
Thats great news. They sound very spritely now. I would agree with you too and leave the cleaning for at least another 3-4days. I would not do it till all the eyes are open. We don't actually wash the whole cage out first clean but put everyone including mum in a playbox with toys and sandbox, food etc then take the cage and scoop out most of the litter leaving the nest intact then put in new and sprinkle some old through it. The nest will likely be fine. Put in loads of tasty food then put the pups back then mum. They will all likely be busy at the trough by then to think about the clean cage.. The are so gorgeous to watch. We have seen then drink with shut eyes before and potty too in the right place.
Yaffle
02-07-2008, 06:17 AM
Hi everyone,
The babies eyes are open! I thought I saw one with it's eyes open last night but wasn't sure, but when I had a look this morning they were all looking at me, they are gorgeous. They're all eating like little piggies now and are getting really big, they're quite fast too so Yeti has given up trying to catch them when they run off! Now their eyes are open I will definately post some pictures this wknd I promise!
Mollz
02-07-2008, 11:46 AM
YAY! :D :) :D :)
So glad to hear they are growing and developing well - can't wait to see piccies.
sthomas048
02-07-2008, 12:09 PM
Im glued to this thread - must see pictures ! :D
babyboos
02-07-2008, 12:43 PM
When first born they need fed every 2 hours night and day but by the time their eyes open they are only feeding once every 4 hours or so, but quite impractical if you are out at work all day to hand rear as you say. Hopefully you wont need to though and they can come away from mum at 21 days and stay together for another week maximum and then seperate into different sexes (this is important if you have a small litter as often there is only one of a sex left but it still needs its litter mates until 4 weeks old minimum). Keep together in same sex groups for another two weeks before even thinking about rehoming them (if you can bear to :wink: ).
Spuds Mum
02-07-2008, 12:47 PM
aaawww Claire, Im so glad they are doing well! I can't wait to see piccys :oops: I just love hamster pups.
Hopefully we will see them in the flesh soon too.
Hope Yeti is also not getting too tired - those pups certainly give Mum the runaround don't they?
I'm so so pleased for you :D
Holly
02-08-2008, 01:10 AM
Great news, Claire, after a horrible week for you. I'm sure they are out of the woods now, thanks goodness. I'm looking forward to the pictures as well :)
Yaffle
02-08-2008, 06:30 AM
I held the babies for the first time last night!
I was going to leave it slightly longer but I'm convinced they all wanted a cuddle so I happily obliged :oops:
They were very good and seemed perfectly happy just sitting in my hand. I put Yeti in her ball for a bit and rubbed my hands in the sawdust then scooped them up one by one and just held them for a couple of seconds each. I think I have a favourite now but I'm sure it is likely to change as time goes on so I'm keeping an open mind for now.
I'm planning on doing the cage clean tonight (day 16) so I should get some lovely pictures of them all which I'll be able to post over the wknd, can't wait to see what you all think of them!
Mollz
02-08-2008, 07:23 AM
It's great that you finally got to hold them Claire, it must be so exciting holding the babies for the first time.
I would have thought that cleaning them out on day 16 should be fine but I would keep some familiar smelling bedding/nest in just to keep Yeti settled.
Looking forward to the pictures and hearing more about them, and their personalities, as they develop.
Yaffle
02-11-2008, 06:09 AM
Ok I'm going to try and post a picture I hope this works!!!
http://www.madabouthamsters.com/images/misc/hamsters_yeti_pups_001
Yaffle
02-11-2008, 06:10 AM
ok, that obviously hasn't worked :oops: I'll have to ask Spud's mum to help me as she has created some links to the pictures for me!
Spacemonkey
02-11-2008, 10:38 AM
I copy and pasted the URL for a sneak peak!
AWWW! How cute is that little guy :D
Are they umbrous? The little one has a grey patch on his head like my cinnie babies had.
Spuds Mum
02-11-2008, 12:09 PM
How could I say no? Here are Yeti's beautiful pups.
http://www.madabouthamsters.com/images/misc/hamsters_yeti_pups_001
http://www.madabouthamsters.com/images/misc/hamsters_yeti_pups_002
http://www.madabouthamsters.com/images/misc/hamsters_yeti_pups_003
http://www.madabouthamsters.com/images/misc/hamsters_yeti_pups_004
I don't think you were doing anything wrong Claire - I couldn't post them as images either, so have posted them as links! :D I'll have another look at them as they should be an okay size for images! :? :?:
doh - I forgot the file extension - here are the images!
http://www.madabouthamsters.com/images/misc/hamsters_yeti_pups_001.jpg
http://www.madabouthamsters.com/images/misc/hamsters_yeti_pups_002.jpg
http://www.madabouthamsters.com/images/misc/hamsters_yeti_pups_003.jpg
http://www.madabouthamsters.com/images/misc/hamsters_yeti_pups_004.jpg
jayne
02-11-2008, 12:13 PM
Aww, i just love photos of little babies! They are looking great!! 8)
Holly
02-11-2008, 12:17 PM
Oh my goodness they are beuatiful - I love the curled up asleep one, what little cuties!
This hasn't helped my hamster broodyness one bit :?
Mollz
02-11-2008, 12:18 PM
They are so gorgeous, and I am so broody for little hammy babies!
Spuds Mum
02-11-2008, 12:19 PM
Oh my goodness they are beuatiful - I love the curled up asleep one, what little cuties!
This hasn't helped my hamster broodyness one bit :?
oh oh Julie - beware - more pics should be forthcoming this evening - Im just re-sizing them etc. now! :x
And they are worth waiting for! Promise :x
Basia
02-11-2008, 12:39 PM
What gorgeous babies and so orangey. Absolutely love them. :D
Spuds Mum
02-11-2008, 02:20 PM
Well I sent the photos to Yaffle tonight for her to post (I don't want to steal her thunder introducing her babies) but she seems to be busy, so seeing as you are all waiting - here are Yeti's pups - they seem to have grown since the last photos and are absolutely gorgeous. Oh and I found out why the others wouldnt load as images so Ive edited that post too!
Hope you enjoy - I'm sure Yaffle will be on soon to tell you all about them! :x
http://www.madabouthamsters.com/images/misc/hamsters_yeti_pups_005.jpg
http://www.madabouthamsters.com/images/misc/hamsters_yeti_pups_006.jpg
http://www.madabouthamsters.com/images/misc/hamsters_yeti_pups_007.jpg
http://www.madabouthamsters.com/images/misc/hamsters_yeti_pups_008.jpg
souffle
02-11-2008, 03:35 PM
Awwww they are just adorable. I love cinnamons. They look to be doing really well Yaffle. Gorgeous babies. Keep the piccies coming. :lol:
Holly
02-12-2008, 01:20 AM
Oh more cute piccies - they are adorable and look lovely and big for their age 8)
Yaffle
02-12-2008, 06:35 AM
Hello,
Thanks Spuds Mum for posting the pics, I don't get on the internet much in the evenings I do it all in my lunch hour in work!
Thanks for all your kind comments about the pups it's great that you all got to see them at last. They're coming on really well now, this being my first litter I'm not really too sure how big they'd usually be now (3 wks tmr!) but they all look to be growing at an alarming rate to me! They double in size everytime I see them! They are little sweeties too, I was a bit worried about the taming process but I needn't have been they're all so good! I've had no nibbles and I haven't been wee'd on some I'm really chuffed! They're all quite happy coming out for cuddles now.
I was wondering around what time do you all uasually take the pups away from Mum? They're 3 wks tmr and it seems as though Yeti is getting a bit fed up with them being there now, so not sure whether to take them out over the next couple of days or leave it a bit longer? One of the pups is slightly smaller than the others though so I'd quite like to give it some time with Mum on it's own to catch up.
I've had a go at sexing the pups, as far as I can tell at least 3 out of the 4 are boys, one of the pups I'm really not sure about. I'm taking them to see Sheryl from Carrington Hams hopefully this wknd so she'll be able to help me out! I'll let you all know as soon as I know for definate :D
Mollz
02-12-2008, 11:29 AM
They are gorgeous Yaffle!
Holly
02-12-2008, 12:08 PM
As you probably know they need to be separated into single sex groups by 4 weeks, Claire - which means that, if the little one is female she *could* (in theory) remain with mum a little bit longer. However I ended up separating mine from mum a couple of days earlier than four weeks - as she had quite obviously had enough of them and was beginning to get a bit rough with them. It just didn't seem worth the risk and Caramel also looked very out of condition and tired by this stage - I just felt a slightly earlier separation was the best thing all round. How does Yeti seem with them now and how does she look, condition-wise?
Yours look absolutely beautiful, you must be over the moon with them :)
souffle
02-12-2008, 12:17 PM
I would leave them a bit longer Yaffle since it is a small litter. We separate at 4 weeks sometimes a day or two earlier. If you have only one girl I would leave her with mum as they do better a few weeks with siblings however sometimes it cannot be if there is a single one of one sex.
They are just adorable :D
Spuds Mum
02-17-2008, 03:27 AM
Well today I am travelling to see Yaffle (and Yeti's) cinnamon pups!
It a couple of hours each way, as Yaffle lives on the west coast and I live on the East, but we are meeting sort of half way in Manchester, where another hamster breeder (Sheryl) is going to have a look at the pups.
I will try to take some photos to show you how they are all doing, I think Yaffle said they were 25 days old today, so I am sure they will have grown some!
We are also taking back the beautiful golden boy, Yowie, that Sheryl loaned us to mate with Vala, though I don't think we are going to be lucky and that she is expecting :cry: never mind.
Mollz
02-17-2008, 11:35 AM
Sounds exciting Spud's Mum, would love to see some more pictures of them - and they must be even cuter in the flesh!!!
Sprry to hear that you don't think Vala is expecting, I'll keep my fingers crosse that she is though.
Spuds Mum
02-18-2008, 12:35 PM
Well the pups were absolutely delightful, calm friendly, inquisitive and very large! I got so excited that I completely forgot to get any photos! :oops:
But I did get something else.....a new little boy from Yaffle's litter, Tabasco, will be coming home with me as soon as he has been run on for a little while with his brothers! :x
Mollz
02-18-2008, 01:53 PM
How naughty!
Never mind, they are all gorgeous and I have to say if I had gone then I would have had to come home with one as well!
souffle
02-18-2008, 04:17 PM
Naughty spud's mum :lol: Are the babies all boys then Yaffle? They sound adorable. Our Sonni's second name (of many) was Tabasco so I am sure she would be honoured to know she has a new little namesake! :lol:
Holly
02-18-2008, 11:56 PM
Sounds very cute, Teresa - and looks cute too if it's one of those little darlings on the previous page :wink:
When will you collect little Tabasco, do you know?
Yaffle
02-19-2008, 06:43 AM
Hello,
Just a quick update on the pups. Having taking them to Sheryl's on Sunday as I thought, there are 3 boys and 1 girl, all L/H cinammon.
Sheryl was really impressed with them and has decided to take the girl and is calling her Nutmeg. She plans to eventually breed her to a lovely short haired cinammon boy that she has so there should be more cinammon babies on the cards soon!
I'm keeping one of the boys, who I've decided to call Snarf like in the Thunder Cats. Teresa is taking another boy (who has the most adorable little face) and as you know he's been named Tabasco.
My younger brother and sister are taking the final boy who they've named Tie (they already have a dwarf called bow so bow-tie!).
I can't believe they are only 27 days old and they all have new homes to go to! I'm planning on running them on until 5/6 weeks and then Teresa can pick up Tabasco at the Alcester (if she can persuade Arti!) or Topcliffe Show.
I took some more pictures last night so I will send them to Teresa later on today and then hopefully if we ask her nicely she will post them for me! :lol:
Spuds Mum
02-19-2008, 12:51 PM
Well she did ask nicely! :x So here we are - meet Snarf, Tie and Tabasco!
http://www.madabouthamsters.com/images/misc/hamsters_yeti_pups_009.jpg
http://www.madabouthamsters.com/images/misc/hamsters_yeti_pups_010.jpg
http://www.madabouthamsters.com/images/misc/hamsters_yeti_pups_011.jpg
http://www.madabouthamsters.com/images/misc/hamsters_yeti_pups_012.jpg
http://www.madabouthamsters.com/images/misc/hamsters_yeti_pups_013.jpg
http://www.madabouthamsters.com/images/misc/hamsters_yeti_pups_014.jpg
http://www.madabouthamsters.com/images/misc/hamsters_yeti_pups_015.jpg
souffle
02-19-2008, 01:52 PM
They look fantastic. Such a lovely rich colour. Oh I love cinnamons. :lol:
Holly
02-19-2008, 04:13 PM
Oh my goodness, they are absolute stunners! Thank goodness they are all taken or I don't think I'd be able to resist asking for one :oops:
I love Cinnamons and want to breed REC's and Minks/Mink Roans later this year and have asked Tristar's Jean to keep an eye out for a Cinnie for me later in the year. These guys are tempting me to bring forward my plans :oops:
jayne
02-19-2008, 04:20 PM
*melts*
How adorable are those little ones?? Those photos are great, i am especially loving the little cuties in pics 1, 5 and 6. Such gorgeous little baby faces there :D
Basia
02-19-2008, 05:05 PM
They are beautiful babies yaffle, a real credit to you.
Spacemonkey
02-19-2008, 05:59 PM
Aw!! How adorable are those little guys?
Seems like they are all very sought after, and rightly so! :D
Yaffle
02-27-2008, 06:56 AM
Well another of the babies went to it's new home last night. Little Tie went to live with my brother and sister so I'll still see him all the time but it was still really sad :cry: I've made sure that he has a lovely cage with plenty to do, I think he was very excited to have his own wheel without his brothers to push him off it. At first he didn't even notice that he was on his own but then I think it suddenly dawned on him and he was looking for his brothers all round the cage it was heart breaking! I'm sure he's settled down now though, I'm going to see him again tonight to give him a cuddle.
Spuds Mum
02-27-2008, 11:04 AM
*waves Bye Bye to beautiful Tie* Ahh its so hard when they go Claire, I feel guilty that I will also be taking Tabasco from you soon. All I can promise is that I will keep you up to date with him, and we will bring him to shows for you to have a love with! :D
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