What type of syrian is my hammie and what is color? Pics!

[hammiesarelovex3]

Coat: http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k78/x ... 0_2363.jpg (http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k78/x3Rissax3/Carmelo/100_2363.jpg)

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k78/x ... 0_2247.jpg (http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k78/x3Rissax3/Carmelo/100_2247.jpg)

Face: http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k78/x ... 0_2371.jpg (http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k78/x3Rissax3/Carmelo/100_2371.jpg)

Any ideas? I was thinking either golden or teddy bear? What is his coat color?

Thanks!

[SnuggleHam]

Since our hammies look alike I think I can already tell ya the color.. I was told this color was called Umbrous Golden.

Babyboos told me that you don't see many with such dark shading like that around. She said..

Umbrous gene has the effect of making a hamster look like it has been rolling in the mud/ash of a fire.

Thats how my hammy looks lol!

[souffle]

I would say Carmelo is a Golden Syrian. He has typical Golden markings and he does not have a huge amount of ticking. Goldens should be evenly ticked with black and the undercoat should be a dark grey colour. Teddy Bear hamsters are not an actual colour or type. They are just a name given by pets shops to put up the price of hamsters by saying they are something special. Panda bear hamsters are the same. They are simple black banded or dominant spot animals. If you blow on his coat you will see each hair will be dark grey then a bit of deep russet orange then the very end will be black or dark brown. That is the ticking.
Here is our Golden Sonni. I think you will agree she looks like Carmelo! Bye the way this is a young hamster and you can clearly see the downy fur on her ears. She was 4 months then. Does Carmelo still have this?
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/Pophammy/sonniwaterwingsresized.jpg

[Minicooper]

Speaking of it, could you tell me what colour hammis is, I think she is a banded something???thanks for help

[souffle]

I am pretty sure Hammis is a banded cream. The cream in a red eyed hamster should be a rich deep pinky peachy cream to the roots. A black eyed would usually be darker with more a deep sandy tone. Hammis is a mix of red and black eyed so it is hard to tell which gene the red and black goes with as you can get both red and black eyed creams and both red and black eyed whites! Does Hammis have patchwork ears? Often banded hamsters do have ears with pink and black marks on them. A cream would be the same colour to the root of the hairs. I have seen a few odd eyed hamsters about but they are not very common.

[SnuggleHam]

Okay, now wait a second here! :lol: Carmelo and Gwendolyn look pretty much the same to me! I was told that Gwen was a Golden Umbros coloration. So that being said.. if Carmelo is a Golden, whats the different between a Golden Umbros and a golden?

Comparing these two images of Gwen and Carmelo?

Carmelo
http://www.hamstercentral.com/profiles/hammiesarelovex3/1.jpg

And my Hammy Gwen
http://www.hamstercentral.com/images/myhammies/gwen04.jpg

Hmm I suppose that Gwen looks to have a darker back. But they are pretty much identical!

[hammiesarelovex3]

Our hammies look the same! (except facial structure, weight, and gender!) So it he a golden umbress or golden?

[Minicooper]

souffle- Yes hammis does have black bits on her pinky ears. so you think she is a cream banded??

[souffle]

The Umbrous gene causes a darkening of the normal Golden agouti colouring particularly on the belly and crescents (black cheek stripes!) Looking at Gwen she does have very dark ticking on her cheeks and head and the belly looks quite dark. Also her back is dark. If you look at the pics of Carmelo from above he is not nearly as dark as Gwen and his ticking is not so dark either. His belly fur is also paler. Our Sonni is definitly confirmed Golden but her coat is not that well ticked. The Umbrous gene is a dominant gene.

Yes Minicooper I am fairly sure Hammis is a Cream banded

[hammiesarelovex3]

Here is a recent pic: http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k78/x ... 0_2376.jpg (http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k78/x3Rissax3/Carmelo/100_2376.jpg)

[SnuggleHam]

I guess your right Souffle! I think the light and dark pictures of Carmelo are a bit deceiving. Carmelo does appear to have a lighter back then Gwen does. I put together an Umbrous comparison picture; I hope you don’t mind hammiesarelovex3!

But both seem to have the same markings in the same places more or less, and both seem to have gray bellies, though Gwens belly does look more of an ashen gray. I think that one pic Hammiesarelove took from above was with a flash making him appear lighter. If we discount that one image, would he still be a golden, or an umbrouse? All the other pics look so close! I guess my eye inst as trained!

http://www.hamstercentral.com/images/myhammies/umbroscompare.jpg

[souffle]

It is hard going from pics but both Pophammy and myself would still put Carmelo as a Golden. The belly fur is really quite pale and a nice golden should have quite dense dark ticking. The markings will still be the same agouti markings but the ticking is much heavier and more widespread in an umbrous giving them a sooty appearance. I always stand to be corrected of course by a more experienced person :lol:
Regardless though, they are still both gorgeous hammies :lol:

[SnuggleHam]

I see what your saying about the dark ticking Souffle. I’m certainly not questioning your hamster know-how, youre certainly more experienced then me! and I have no clue about color standards, or else I might be able to pull off writing a genetics article on my own lol! But without questions we don’t get answers and we don’t learn :P Im slowly on my way to understanding color patterns :D

[hammiesarelovex3]

Everyone is so helpful! Thanks! I don't mind about the pic snuggleham!

In my room when i took that pic, the light was on and I don't think think the flash went off...

[Skwee]

There are different types of golden, there is light, normal and dark variations of golden, there is also the typical (around here) petshop golden that has blatently come from something like a golden x sable breeding and they look like a really dirty golden.

I don't know whether your hammy is a dark golden, umbrous golden or a 'petshop golden'. I don't know too much about goldens and haven't seen any or many that shade :oops:

I think, tho, that he may still be Umbrous, even if not as dark as Gwen, because he doesnt have the white cheekflashes, they are an ashy grey colour...

[souffle]

Yes Skwee you are quite right there. mmmm...have been looking around a bit and there are in the UK the three types of golden, the dark, normal and light which is virtually never seen. The dark is heavily and evenly ticked with black with the dorsal line & hair on scalp intensly shaded. Face to be swarthy with black eye rings. Belly fur is ivory with a grey undercolour and the crescents (around the black cheek flashes) ivory so I agree the look quite dark. Maybe Babyboos can shed some light? In some of the pics Carmelos belly and chin are almost white which makes me think golden. In any case he is a Golden but I think he would need to be seen in the flesh to dcide what type! Even on the show bench people and judges will disagree on exactly what colour a hamster is so it is often down to a judges decision on the day as to what a colour is judged as.

[babyboos]

The Goldens with the black eye circles all tend to carry Black in their genetic makeup.

I think Carmelo is Golden and definitey not Golden Umbrous from the additional photographs in brighter light. Golden on a show bench and in a pet shop can be really quite different.

Both are lovely but you would be amazed if you saw a really good 'Show Quality' Golden at the depth and richness of the chestnutty colour, and blowing gently on their back just amazes you at the colours the hair shafts contain.

Hammis is a Red Eyed Cream Banded Short Haired Syrian with the added complication of odd eyes due to the banded gene. She has quite a large band too which does go all the way around.

[souffle]

Oh good Babyboos and I agree :lol:
Yes Babyboos some show Goldens are quite stunning to look at and a good Satin Golden is one of the most eyecatching animals I have ever seen. I will try and get a picture of the Golden which has won Best in Show twice recently at Northern for you all on Sunday. She is gorgeous. That's if she is there.

[souffle]

As promised here is pic of the Flattop Hamstery Golden female. She has won Best in Show yet again!
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/Pophammy/roth4.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/Pophammy/roth5.jpg
As you can see she is quite heavily ticked and I had a chat with the judge who commented that the dark golden is now the favoured colour of show golden.
As to umbrous, if she were umbrous the white/ivory bits under the black cheek stripes would be grey as would the belly fur. Hope the pics help! She is a beauty. Sorry the pics are not the best.

[SnuggleHam]

The pics are great Souffle and they helped me to see what you meant about the ticking variations and the white to grey variations in the Golden and Golden Umbrous.