baby hamster loose balance please help

[tita]

http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac196/titadudu/th_IMG_0043.jpg (http://s899.photobucket.com/albums/ac196/titadudu/?action=view&current=IMG_0043.mp4)

I have these babies who all in a sudden start dieing I just went to a vet now cause I couldn't stay and the only reason he so is that it could be they feel hot .he inject them antibiotics and he gave me a medicine to give it to them every 15 min he said that what they have is coming from their brain cause one of them continue to walk in circles and the other one lost the balance to walk I will post later cause I have to give them medicine now

[souffle]

I am so sorry about this tita. It must be very hard to see this.
It may be that the babies have some sort of genetic abnormality in the brain which is only affecting them as they become older. If they do not improve I would say that you would have to help them to the bridge.
Pups this age are very vulnerable and this is the commonest age to lose them as they start the weaning process and their bodies are sometimes unable to process food properly.
They may have either a viral or bacterial menigitis which would likely prove fatal. Keep them isolated. Is the mother affected or is she OK.
Check the food and bedding to see that there is nothing toxic in it that they could have eaten.
Hybrid dwarfs are often seen to be affected by these neurological genetic problems which lead to spinning and circling.
My thoughts are with you and the little ones XX

[tita]

Their mother is ok ,she don't seem weak or nothing at all I had her pregnant before this litter about 5 months ago and all her litter were ok cause iIkept 4 from them .But how it come I mean they were 9 in this litter and it started on wednesday afternoon all in a sudden after a woman and her 2 kids come, I just gave them 3 hamsters from the 2nd litter, they were 10 weeks old and I told her that she have to keep them in separate cages and I told her not to breed them cause they are all from the same litter ,but they wanted teddy bear hamsters and dark in color they pointed at these and I told them that I can't give because they are still young ,after I went down and went back to feed them I found one of them dead he didn't show this kind of illness .In the morning I did found another and it continued .I just so these 2 making like this today and I went more crazy .The vet said that it could be a virus that comes from the ear and effect their brains .So could it be from the mating i Did? If so do tell me please cause i feel so broken

[souffle]

Tita I doubt it is anything you did. This does happen and many experienced breeders here in the UK can lose whole litters. Are their tummies bloated at all. This is often a cuase of death in young pups.
I don't think it was anything to do with the visitors - that is just a co-incidience.
Was this a different mating to the mums previous one? It is possible but unusual for the female to contract an infection from the male but she would likely have symptoms.
Is there any way that wild mice or rats could have been in contact with your hamsters or their food or bedding? Visuses and bacteria can be transmitted through these.
With a virus it is touch and go with such small babies. Antibiotics do not kill viruses but the little ones must fight it themselves with their underdeveloped immune systems.
If the dad was a different one from the last litter then he may be the source of a genetic abnormality and I would not use him at stud again. You should not breed this female again either.
Keep up the meds and everything is crossed for you.
PS Ensure the pups are fully hydrated by offering fluids every 30 mins or so.

[tita]

Their tummies is ok even the vet couldn't see nothing wrong He just asked me if I took one hamster which I found dead with me so he could make an autopsy on him but I didn't do so. the litter is from the one I posted in the forum The babies are born.The mother is a Black eyed cream and the male is a Dove banded. Now I remain 3 there is another one with them but he don't show any symptoms yet and the others that are dead I didn't see them doing this kind of thing .I'm giving them a medicine the vet gaved me to dilute in water every 15 min.The food I keep it in a closed plastic container which it is only opened when i feed them and if a rat or a mouse can enter the room it can't enter their cage cause the wire is 1/4 by 1/4 inch and i never so something not normal in the room .the vet said that the only things that he see is or from the heat or a virus from their ears that it goes to their brain but how it doesn't efect both the same symptoms I feel like i wanna shoot myself now

[tita]

:cry: one of them just left now on my hands he just looks at me took a deep breath and died with his eyes open

[souffle]

I am sorry titi. I have been there :(
I am not a vet but I think every 15 minutes is too much if this is like a rehydation fluid. The babies are getting no chance to rest and sleep.
It is very easy to drown such tiny pups when giving them fluids. You could use an artist paintbrush and drop the fluid in or you can use a tiny syringe. You need to go very slow, drop by drop.
I think to be honest that they have bloat and it is very difficult to pull them through this. The falling is a symptom. They may have gas in the bowel and this is making it hard for them to move without pain.
You are doing all you can sweetie and giving them the only chance they have. You may lose them all but you may keep the one pup that seems healthy as he is a fighter.
Hugs to you

[tita]

All i know is that the one who died now wanted to make toilet but it was so hard that it couldn't go out and i helped him and all in a sudden it comes out more like it was stuck in .I'm using a small syringe to give them what the doctor gave me and only one drop at each time now they are sleeping and i guess i will let them sleep and give them again when they wake up Thanks souffle

[souffle]

Do you have any cucumber? They sound dehydrated and blocked up. Can they use the water bottle? Have you seen them use it? Start feeding finely chopped cucumber and watery porridge. You need to stimulate them to toilet as it seems mum has stopped doing it. Use a damp cotton bud and sort of massage over the two vents, quite quickly as if simulating the mothers tongue licking them. They should wee and poop when you do this.
Could they have eaten any bedding like the fluffy stuff or any other stuff?
I hope they make it now we may have some idea with the bowel thing

[tita]

No they can't use it at least i didn,t see them using it ,were should i do the massage with the cotton bud ? were they wee? I don't have cucumber now can i use something else i will go out and get one

[SnickersTheFirst]

If you don't have any cucumber maybe half of a grape. Anything with moisture in will help, even a cereal dipped in milk. I do hope the babies get stronger. xx

[tita]

I get the cucumber now will i try to feed them or i just put it in their cage and leave them to eat by themselves sorry for asking to much but i can't think on what to do

[souffle]

You must hydrate them. Mums milk has dried up I think. They have two holes -one to poop and one to wee. Both need stimulated with the damp cotton bud. You can use a tissue sort of rooled up and dampened. Clean them when they do it. Sometimes it takes a while. Get a very shallow dish and put watery porridge in in along with chopped veg. Do you have any type or could you pop to the shop and buy some. Even some milk or soya milk is good. Get some live yogurt - maybe peach or something to try and get them lapping it. You may need to keep stimulating them to toilet every 4 hrs. Be patient till they perform.
Check mums nipples as she may have mastitis. If any are red and swollen you must get her seen by the vet. If her milk is infected she will be passing this on to the pups.
So rehydrate and toilet pups every 2 hrs for now then on to 4 hrs. Even the one that seems OK.
Good luck

[souffle]

Chop the cumcumber up and offer it to all of them on a teaspoon. You cannot force feed the sick ones with this so fingers crossed they will take it.

[tita]

the babyies are no longer with there mother cause she started to fight withthe on thersday and i ween them they are 4 weeks old

[souffle]

They are very small for 4 weeks titi which may be beause they are not getting enough fluids to process the food.
You can only try and see if you can get them moving. It may be that it is just meant to be and you cannot save them sadly. Keep trying what the vet said and also the feeding.

[tita]

one of them is eating the cucumber and i tried the stimulation and it worked one of them did made one and it was hard and the other did wee .They looked very comfortable while i do it it seems they enjoy it I will keep trying what u told me and give them the fluids at least I will try to safe even one from two Thanks from my hearth souffle

[tita]

I don't know but all in a sudden i found the outside crust of the sunflower i don't know were it come from cause they are both in a new cage with no other food maybe he ate it

[souffle]

I think they are dehydrated because they have been unable to work the bottle. I am hopeful now tita. Because they are small they may be a little behind in development and still need the stimulation. they are like premature babies who have had a setback. It will be a relief to them to toilet. The mum would do this for them but normally not at this age but if they have been delayed then they may need it to get them through. I really hope they make it for you and well done for trying so hard
XX

[tita]

one of them who is a golden banded eat a little porridge now and he was able to make toilet too the other one is still the same I'm still trying and I will continue during the night I hope at least one of them will make it I wanna Thank you again Souffle for staying with me and for advising me I 'm obligated at you for all my live thanks again from my hearth

[KutButLykee]

Awww.. I am sorry Tita. I have heard and seen baby Hamsters being abit unsteady on there feet, but not so much too cause death. I'm glad and relieved you took them to the Vet, It sounded like it was just in time! I hope there ok, Good Luck!;)

[SnickersTheFirst]

I also hope the remaining babies survive, Tita.

[souffle]

You are welcome but sorry I cannot perform miracles. I wish I could and I only hope that it helps. Sometimes they do rally then succomb because of internal damage Tita so take it hour by hour and don't get your hopes to high. They are not out ofthe woods yet. Is the little one still unbalanced or has it gained more control yet?
They will feel your love around them and the eating is a good sign. Maybe you can try some babyfood tomorrow if they go through the night?
Bless you you are doing so well and even if they do not make it tita they have lived a lifetime of love in their time with you already.
I think these guys are destined to stay with you now eh?

[tita]

he is sometimes walking around normally and grooming himself ,I put him in a basin and he even climb and get out from it, now i transversed him in a cage and I left the other quietly in the other I will tells you how it went tomorrow

[SnickersTheFirst]

That's great news, I really do hope the pups get better.

[souffle]

Try and keep them very calm. They need to conserve their energy to get well. No basins for now tita!! Good luck for overnight. xx

[tita]

Both of them are still trying to survive i kept on giving them what I could They are all the time grooming themselves its something unbelievable to do so in that manner one of them is the golden is better then the cinne but sometimes he loose balance but he do walks around and eat a little the other is still the same when he walks he turns to his back I'm very tired now I will take a small nap

[tita]

They are still on battle with their life,The golden is getting worst but the cinnie seems he make a little progress,he even made toilet without making him the massage and he ate a little too even i have to spoon feed him.I made them like a vegetable soup and give them a little in the syringe now they are sleeping.Hope they be ok

[princess-rhi89]

I really hope they are ok tita, im sending my best wishes to you and the pups xx

[souffle]

You can only try tita. If hamsters could live on love then these little ones would live forever.

[tita]

They did eat the yogurt yogurt in the night and even the cucumber by themselves should I introduce them other type of food? They cinne started even to climb the cage

[souffle]

Make sure the hamster mix is available at all times. You could soak the biscuits a bit in water.
Other things that may help are, in tiny quantities, cooked pasta, plain cooked chicken, scrambled eggs, babyfood and some veg like broccolli. Try them one at a time and one a day and watch out for loose tummies.
They are coming on better now it seems.
Good luck

[tita]

Thanks souffle I just put them their mix now and they ate I will make them something more tomorrow cause i already did give them the yogurt and the cucumber today so i won't upset their stomach

[souffle]

I would give the yogurt, about 1 teaspoon every day till they are fully healthy because this will give them healthy bowel bacteria.

[tita]

Ok I will do so I will make them some chicken tomorrow while i make it for the other Honey who given birth yesterday

[Katty_Sheldon]

I am sending positive energy your way and thinking of your little ones. You are such a great hamster mommy, good luck.
And once more: Souffle, you are so amazing... this forum is lucky to have you!

[Hope]

Just read this thread the whole way through, goodness what a journey. Tita you are doing an amazing job with these little guys and Souffle has given some excellent advice - makes me proud to be a member actually! I wish you all the luck in the world with the little ones - I have everything crossed for you x x

[tita]

Thanks guys but mostly to Souffle cause for sure if it wasn't him I already lost them.Both of them are eating now even their dry food the only thing is that they are not drinking from the bottle .I'm still giving them water little by little with the syringe and the cinnie is getting his balance even if he sometimes fall but I see him better

[souffle]

They will likely be getting a lot of fluid from the food now tita so may not need to use the bottle much. I would see if you can get a very shallow dish and put some water in that.
With your new litter you should be sure to feed the chopped cucumber, porridge and babyfood from when they are about 7 days. We sprinkle it round the nest or let mum take it in. They also need the dry hamster mix as well as their main diet of course.
I am so happy they are feeling better now (PS I am a her!)

[tita]

So should I stop giving them water with the syringe ? I will put a small dish inside with water and try it. The other litter from the abandoned I gave her yogurt yesterday and she don't eat it even the Scrabble egg today I made her some boiled potato

[souffle]

If they are taking it from the syringe then keep offering it.
What do you mean by 'the abandoned one'. Has the mother left her litter?

[tita]

[QUOTE=souffle;116308
With your new litter you should be sure to feed the chopped cucumber, porridge and babyfood from when they are about 7 days. We sprinkle it round the nest or let mum take it in. They also need the dry hamster mix as well as their main diet of course.
I mean the other litter from those hamsters i get from my friend

[tita]

Hy there ,The cinnie is getting lot better I transversed him in a separate cage, he get 90% of his balance now ,I will take a movie on Saturday and post it I'm still giving them water and milk with the syringe cause they still don't use the bottle .The golden is 50 50 even tough he is eating I don't see him in good form he is making a strange noise and sometimes he moves his front feet very quickly in the same place .Maybe he will be better in a fewer days cause he did start the symptoms later than the cinnie I do wanna THANK YOU ONCE AGAIN SOUFFLE THANKS FOR EVERYTHING YOUR A HAMSTER GENIOUS mostly when uyou told me to rub between the 2 points so he can wee iI remained with my mouth open and I hurried told my wife how it really worked and how your really nows how to care in hamsters =D>

[souffle]

They could be left with some lasting damage from an infection or if they were born with an abnormality tita. They may never be 100% and you will have to assess the quality of their lives, particularly the Golden and decide on the route forward. You have done a great job with them and it is you that has done the work to pull them through a difficult patch.
I hope they continue to do well. Is the cinnie feeding himself now?

[tita]

They are both feeding themselves very well not to say more than its suppose they eat.They are eating their hamster mix and I'm giving them some treats as well .The only thing is they don't drink from the bottle and now I'm afraid that they will get used to drink from me by the syringe.I do know that they wont be 100 % but as long as they stay I keep helping them,and for sure I won't breed again before I get to know how these genetics works I don't know if all this was my fault,but if so I will take all the responsibility in doing it .I'll like to learn but I do know that it gonna take time .I do like to say to anyone who read this post NOT TO BREED THEIR HAMSTERS IF THEY ARE NOT FAMILIARLY KNOWN WITH THEM cause its really sad to see what i so

[wofunny]

Maybe you could cover the ball of the bottle with a 'tasty liquid' so they get drawn to using it?

[souffle]

I would try the bowl of water and also as wofunny suggest rub the spout of the bottle with something like cucumber to attract them to it. If you are feeding them lots of fruit and veg and also porridge and stuff they do not really need much other fluid because they will get all they need from this. They are desert animals and are adapted to use little fluid and produce concentrated urine.

[tita]

I will try this soon and let you know how it went

[tita]

hy there it works wofunny i rubbed the cucumber with their bottles and i found it less cause I use to mark it to see if they are drinking Thanks .here's a small video of the cinnie just tell me if there is a difference from the first one its not so clear cause i put a small light in his room I will take a better one in the morning


http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac196/titadudu/cinnie/th_Video0001.jpg (http://s899.photobucket.com/albums/ac196/titadudu/cinnie/?action=view&current=Video0001.mp4)

[wofunny]

i am so glad it worked :D

he defiantly looks a lot more stable and generally healthier, all down to your hard work no doubt.

[souffle]

He looks a lot happier now tita and is very active isn't he! Glad to hear they have found the bottle now! Do they sleep OK or are they up a lot in the day?

[SnickersTheFirst]

He's looking alot better, tita! Glad to see that your hard work has paid off. :D

[tita]

They do sleep and wake up to eat like normal the cinnie got really better now but the golden is still a little nosy I think I will get him to the vet to see him next week maybe he got something else.Here's another shot from the cinnie its more clear .I just transversed him to a bigger cage now so he will have more space He will be my favorite hamster

http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac196/titadudu/cinnie2/th_Video0004.jpg (http://s899.photobucket.com/albums/ac196/titadudu/cinnie2/?action=view&current=Video0004.mp4)

[tita]

the golden is getting better he is not making that noise anymore and he started to drink from the bottle too now

[souffle]

Yay they sound to be doing great.
No wonder they will be you favourites now :)
I think you must keep these two because they are bonded close to you now :)

[Hope]

Fabulous news, so glad to hear that the babies are continuing to improve :-)

[princess-rhi89]

Glad to hear they are getting along ok now :) xxx

[wofunny]

Thats great news :)

I agree with souffle, you should keep them!

[tita]

Sure I will ,they are my children now and I wont let them go cause maybe they will breed with them and it will make more complications. I will keep them as pets not to breed and at least I can know if in the future there will be something wrong again or if they show any signs of balance