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AmityvilleHams · 01-29-2020, 07:01 PM

I was on that other forum during the days of the creation of the absolutely ridiculous 450 square inch minimum - and I can equally vouch that it had nothing to do with proper animal welfare.

We had more than adequate evidence that it wasn't appropriate which was ignored. We saw seemingly endless cases to prove that 360 and 450 square inches were both woefully inadequate to say the least, but because big cages aren't "nice" or "easy" for some people proper welfare based and more importantly evidence based minimums were not considered the right choice.

Unfortunately in life, we have to accept that when it comes to providing for our pets properly we don't always get the easy way out or the most convenient choices. I haven't been willing to say it so much, but it must be said that we have to consider first and foremost individual animal welfare above all else.

Social housing of any hamster species is a massive risk, even with more secure dividers. It is not worth the stress and potential very real and very serious safety risks and overall welfare concerns. It's somewhat new on the forum to see this stance, but we have seen the real result of what can and quite often does go wrong with even the most prepared experienced individuals housing multiple hamsters in an enclosure. It is devastating and horrifying to say the least.

You could certainly still use a full Detolf for a single dwarf. Keep in mind a full Detolf is 953.25 square inches, so even a perfect half is just barely over the human convenience orientated 450 square inch minimum. 476.625 square inches isn't very big even for the smallest of hamsters.

Using math going off the square meter Syrian minimum(not so popular here because it's not convenient), backed by science, you get a "magical number" of 258.333333333 square inches per inch of body length going off the idea that one would have a 6 inch long Syrian. In translation, that means 516 square inches roughly for a 2 inch long robo to get the same equivalent. I don't disagree with EmmaAndChester on the 620 square inch minimum however even when it comes to robos.

01-29-2020, 07:01 PM
AmityvilleHams PM Fluffy for custom title Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 4,545	Re: Two hammies in divided Detolf I was on that other forum during the days of the creation of the absolutely ridiculous 450 square inch minimum - and I can equally vouch that it had nothing to do with proper animal welfare. We had more than adequate evidence that it wasn't appropriate which was ignored. We saw seemingly endless cases to prove that 360 and 450 square inches were both woefully inadequate to say the least, but because big cages aren't "nice" or "easy" for some people proper welfare based and more importantly evidence based minimums were not considered the right choice. Unfortunately in life, we have to accept that when it comes to providing for our pets properly we don't always get the easy way out or the most convenient choices. I haven't been willing to say it so much, but it must be said that we have to consider first and foremost individual animal welfare above all else. Social housing of any hamster species is a massive risk, even with more secure dividers. It is not worth the stress and potential very real and very serious safety risks and overall welfare concerns. It's somewhat new on the forum to see this stance, but we have seen the real result of what can and quite often does go wrong with even the most prepared experienced individuals housing multiple hamsters in an enclosure. It is devastating and horrifying to say the least. You could certainly still use a full Detolf for a single dwarf. Keep in mind a full Detolf is 953.25 square inches, so even a perfect half is just barely over the human convenience orientated 450 square inch minimum. 476.625 square inches isn't very big even for the smallest of hamsters. Using math going off the square meter Syrian minimum(not so popular here because it's not convenient), backed by science, you get a "magical number" of 258.333333333 square inches per inch of body length going off the idea that one would have a 6 inch long Syrian. In translation, that means 516 square inches roughly for a 2 inch long robo to get the same equivalent. I don't disagree with EmmaAndChester on the 620 square inch minimum however even when it comes to robos.