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Old 03-07-2006, 10:09 AM   #11
Emma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babyboos

Crossing the Silver Sable to a Sable will give homozygote Sables and heterozygote Silver Sables? Two identical forms of "eU" (Cream and Umbrous) from each parent to give eeUU (Sable) and eSgU combining with eU to give eeSgsgUU (Silver Sable) - Is that right?


Apart from we don't know (at least I think we don't know!) whether he is eeSgSgUU or eeSgSgUu - maybe Sue does know because she knows his pedigree!



Crossing a silver sable and a sable should give Het Silver Sables eeSgsgU*, sables eesgsgU* and possibly some creams eesgsguu if both parents were het for the umbrous gene.



Just to stretch my genetics muscles......crossing with his Auntie LBJ would be:



Sire: AaeeSgSgU* (we know he is Aa from his father)

Dam: aaEeSgSguu (we know she is Ee from her BEW parent)



So your possibles would be



(if sire homo for umbrous):

25% Umbrous Silver Grey AaEeSgSgUu

25% Umbrous LBJ? aaEeSgSgUu (not quite sure what that would be!)

50% Het Silver Sable AaeeSgSgUu and aaeeSgSgUu (not sure how the aa would affect it, assuming it would be cancelled by the ee?)



(if sire het for umbrous):

the above (halve the %s!) plus

12.5% Silver Greys AaEeSgSguu

12.5% LBJs aaEeSgSguu

25% BEWs AaeeSgSguu and aaeeSgSguu (again assuming ee cancels aa?)



Yes Hamsters in Focus is a good place to lurk to read about things like this
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Old 03-07-2006, 10:10 AM   #12
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Could the difference between the brown aaSgSgs and the slate aaSgSgs be the umbrous gene? Someone would have figured that out wouldn't they.
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Old 03-07-2006, 10:48 AM   #13
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Wow Emma!



well done... I'm really impressed





Quote:
Originally Posted by Emma

Apart from we don't know (at least I think we don't know!) whether he is eeSgSgUU or eeSgSgUu - maybe Sue does know because she knows his pedigree!


Yes I do know, and he will be Uu. There is no Umbrous in the LBJs and the Silver Grey lines behind them, as that would seriously spoil the Silver Grey. Remember that the LBJ is a non-agouti Silver Grey, and good SGs have been bred to them and from them!



Umbrous being dominant, you would know straight away if a SG had it. Some of this lad's littermates are Umbrous SG, and while it's obviously non-standard, it's rather nice with heavier blacker ticking and darker overall coat.



Quote:
Crossing a silver sable and a sable should give Het Silver Sables eeSgsgU*, sables eesgsgU* and possibly some creams eesgsguu if both parents were het for the umbrous gene.


Yes. At this stage I won't do that, I would like to make a couple more first before getting overwhelmed with het Silver Sables! I've already got more het SGs than I want, through doing an outcross.



Quote:
Just to stretch my genetics muscles......crossing with his Auntie LBJ would be:

Sire: AaeeSgSgU* (we know he is Aa from his father)

Dam: aaEeSgSguu (we know she is Ee from her BEW parent)


Auntie is Tamari, if that helps!



Quote:
So your possibles would be



(if sire het for umbrous):

the above (halve the %s!) plus

12.5% Silver Greys AaEeSgSguu

12.5% LBJs aaEeSgSguu

25% BEWs AaeeSgSguu and aaeeSgSguu (again assuming ee cancels aa?)


It will be the above scenario. There is no visual difference between UU and Uu from what I can gather.



Cream masks both agouti and non-agouti equally, but I have noticed you can see darker cheek flashes on my SS boy, so I would imagine aa based Silver Sables might not show that, giving a more evenly coloured hamster.



Once I have a couple of Silver Sables I will feel happier about outcrossing them, and hopefully enough to share a few around for others to outcross too. Creams and normal Sables, as well as Silver Greys, are consistently very big, typy hamsters, so it wouldn;t be long before some really stunning Silver Sables appear.



Another mating I'm considering is crossing the young lad back to his mum at some point... who is an Umbrous Rust het SG hiding Tort (the lad's mum & dad were utterly unrelated so it won't be too bad). The important bit is she has Umbrous, and Cream obviously, and one SG gene... but the really fun part is she is Rust - i.e. chocolate. Meaning he will be carrying it, and there we go... the chance of Chocolate Silver Sables....



I'll leave you to figure out the ratios on that, but remember any Torts with Umbrous won't show it. There you go, tonight's homework.... (I am evil aren't I!)
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Old 03-10-2006, 02:14 PM   #14
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I just read on the NHC site that silver grey x cream is 'black-eyed ivory' - is that what you're meaning by BEW?
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Old 03-10-2006, 02:24 PM   #15
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Edit - whoops, read the question!!! Doh!



Sgsgee (one SG dose) is black-eyed Ivory yes. But I have a Satin one here in Nora's litter and (because Satin deepens colour especially phaeomelanin) it looks more like a pale Black-eyed Cream.



The BEWs seem to be SgSgee, although not totally proven yet. In some ways my mind is having trouble imagining one extra SG dose to bleach that ivory to pure white... so maybe something else is helping there?



The appearance of the LBJs in this particular line kind of threw people a bit since they'd never occurred before and came from a BEW, and nobody knew what they were. Some have been shown as Chocolate and done well!
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