Evil hamster

[Pebbles82]

Hi - do you have a bath in the bathroom? (If that's not a silly question!). Using the bathtub as a playpen can be good and doesn't cost anything. It's how we tamed our Syrian. I wouldn't risk using the bathroom floor there are always holes where pipework comes through, especially behind a toilet and under a bath (another hamster owner on here lost her hamster who squeezed under the bath panel and disappeared into a hole where the waste pipe came through. She did get him back eventually but not without lots of sleepless nights and angst).

I think the bathtub could be good. I think Freddy must have had a bad experience at some point to be so bitey. Maybe dropped or handled roughly at the pet shop before you got him. Or even not handled at all. It takes a little bit of time to gain their trust and confidence. Our hamster has never actually bitten, but was impossible to pick up or hold when we first got him. He would get aggressive and run at your hand, and jerk his head to threaten to bite if you tried to touch him. If you tried to pick him up he would 'ping' (kind of wriggle and leap 2 or 3 feet in the air at the same time) which risked him falling and hurting himself. I got the tips about bathtub taming on here.

I know it must be really frustrating for you and you can even start to feel a bit negative towards a hammy if it seems like they don't like you (it isn't that they don't like you they are just scared and protecting themselves against what they associate with something that could harm them). I think with the bathtub it can take away some of the pressure to have to try to interact at first and he can get used to just being out of the cage and able to run around (they do try and run up the side of the bath and keep slithering down again! So the odd cardboard tube and toy and a few hidden treats might help preoccupy him).

I think - if he is a proud aloof little man like ours, he will not like being scooped into a jug - it's not good for his male ego. It would be better if he voluntarily walked into something - say something to tempt him into a tube or his ball so he just walks into it. We used to use a kitchen roll inner tube (until it got too small for him) with one end in his ball and a tempting treat at that end (eg a small piece of cheese or cucumber) and put the other end over his house door. He would walk into the tube to get the treat and into the ball. When he is in the ball you can pop the top and gently lift him/carry him and take him to the bathtub - it helps to talk gently and tell him it's ok while transporting him up there. Then put the ball in the dry bathtub with the plug in (already set up with the odd tube and hidey place and treats and take the lid off and let him walk out and explore.

Sometimes we would just put the ball in the cage near his house door with the treat in and do it that way. Sometimes he got wise to the tube thing and would take the treat and turn round in the tube and go back in his house! So then I started putting a hand over either end of the tube and lifting the tube out, putting one end of the tube in the ball and keeping a hand over the other end. (If you're nervous he'll bite doing this then wear gloves when doing it). Try to relax as they pick up your tension and get more stressed themselves.

We would do this a couple of times a week - ie tempt him out via tube/ball and let him run around in the bathtub. Sometimes letting him have a 5 minute run in the ball first before taking him to the bathtub. Keep the bathtub sessions to no more than 15 or 20 minutes. While he is in there you can occasionally try stroking him on the back with one finger - if he leaps, leave it till another time. Eventually one day, I stroked ours on the back with one finger while he was slithering up and down the side of the bath and as usual he jerked his head round as if to bite, but stopped part way as the touch was gentle. I took my hand away then tried again a few minutes later and this time he didn't jerk his head round. As CMB suggested, at first you could try doing it with a toothbrush if you are scared he will bite - or wear gloves at first. Once we could touch him without him threatening to bite it was a big breakthrough and things moved quickly from there. I would put a hand, palm side up under his tummy (again while he was slithering up the side of the tub a bit!) and gently lift him just a fraction but not try and hold him, and just let him walk off again. A few minutes later the same. After that, we were able to lift him and hold him for a few minutes and he accepted it. Then we could just pick him up and he was meek as anything and didn't jerk or leap or anything. He had learned that the scent and touch of the person handling him was safe and to be trusted.

He is still a bit proud and aloof and stamps his feet sometimes if he is cross about something - to let you know! But he is also like a little furry baby at times as well and quite sweet and will sit still for a stroke or cuddle (for a short time then he wants to do his own thing again and walks off).

So try and have patience - it does take a lot of patience at first! And taming can be done at any time, no matter how long you have had him. It's important to get them used to being handled outside the cage as when in the cage they are more territorial and want to see you off or run away. Even now our hamster doesn't like a hand in his cage and will anxiously follow it round to see what it is doing in there!

The big emphasis is - be gentle (sorry if you know that already and are) - talk in a low gentle voice and tell him nice things (they pick up on tone of voice), only use very gentle touch and slow movements so he feels a bit in control. Once he is tamed I think you'll find he is a happier, less aggressive hamster. He has everything he needs in the cage from what you say. The only other thing that could be causing his stress in the cage is cleaning. If you do big cleans every week (not sure what you do there) this will aggravate things - I picked up some really good tips on cage cleaning from Erin's Hamsters cage cleaning tips video and it has made life a lot easier for both me and our hamster! The key is - never clean everything at the same time and don't remove all the bedding at any time (which you probably know). So spot cleaning mainly, and when you do need to do a clean, keep the bottom half of the substrate and mix it in with the new you add, and clean the toys on a separate week to doing the substrate. Have added the link to the video below, which goes into more detail and explains it better. Also avoid moving anything in the cage - at least for now. Leave everything in the same place. I find scatter feeding half of his food can be a positive distraction (put half in his food bowl and scatter the other half round the cage on the substrate so he can forage for it), and hiding the odd treat in certain places now and then.

So he needs to feel safe in his cage, and learn to feel safe being handled. Then he might be less scared/aggressive. I've also added a little video I did about our bathtub taming - it doesn't really show that much but has some useful tips on how/timing of things and you can see what he does in the bath!

Hope this helps. At the moment you two are at loggerheads! And soon you will have a bond of trust that makes life a lot happier. They are sensitive little things and easily scared until they have built confidence in you, the handler. I would forget the box - ours detested the box!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jVnEjrXbww

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjyEme2xcq4

[FreddyAndMe]

Thanks for all that info! I do know exactly why he bites: he thinks I am a source of food. I started taming by passing him treats to earn his trust and almost immediately he learned my hand was food and as a response bites my hand thinking it is dinner time.

His cage only gets cleaned every fortnight and I try to leave some in from last time so he can smell it.

I did scatter feed him but had to put a stop to it because he managed to figure it out - as soon as the cage opens he is out like a whippet and would follow the food spoon around the cage as I hid his meal. Thinking that I am working with the most food motivated rodent in history....

Also I never put my hand near him in his cage, I noticed from the start it seems to stress him out.

There is a bath in the bathroom, yes. Would I sit in it with him or just let him play on his own like cypher said? I don't really have toys to go in it because they are all in his cage.

[FreddyAndMe]

Just thinking, is there a way to get him to forget my hand and start over completely? I don't know how I am going to get him to stop thinking I am food

[Pebbles82]

You can do a bit of both. At first we just let him roam/play in it. We just had a cardboard kitchen roll tube, a ceramic mug on its side and his ball in there. Then we found little boy's Octopod toy but that's not necessary! A few cardboard tubes and a mug on its side will do - will he fit through a toilet roll tube? I found the kitchen roll tubes slightly bigger. After the first 2 or 3 times, little boy tried getting in the bath first (before I put Charlie in and opened his ball) and Charlie ran over and under his legs as if he was a piece of furniture. They can try and run up your arm to your shoulder to be able to jump out though, so best only do that if someone else is with you, who can block escape attempts with a well-placed arm if necessary. We didn't know about the tissue trick then, which is probably an easier way of getting them used to your scent. You put some sheets of white toilet paper up your sleeve for a few hours (or some people put it inside a bra instead if that's easier), then tear each sheet into 5 or 6 strips for nesting material and put a pile of it somewhere in his cage. He'll take some for his nest and that will help him get used to your scent. You might not see the pile go down much at first, but it will and he will have taken the odd bit. They usually pouch some and take it back to the nest.

It sounds like he needs to settle down a bit for some stability now too. If he's had to change cage 2 or 3 times (we had this too and it set back taming for a bit). So for the next couple of weeks don't clean anything - just the occasional spot clean (ie take the odd handful of pee'd on substrate out and replace it with a handful of new and mix it in). It won't do any harm if it's a tiny bit whiffy for a couple of weeks. Does he use a litter tray/potty? That made a huge different to cage cleaning for me. Charlie started using it straight away (you put it in their chosen pee corner with chinchilla bathing sand in it and maybe a tiny bit of pee'd on substrate on top the first time so it still smells like a pee area). He uses it all the time now and the rest of the cage stays clean. I empty and clean out and refill the potty every 4 or 5 days and hardly even need to spot clean.

Keep doing the spot cleaning as long as you can, then when you do have to do a cage clean, just do something like on Erin's video. He certainly does sound like he is guarding if he comes out every time you put food out and follows the spoon around! I put the food and water out at a time when Charlie is asleep if that helps (early evening usually). If he comes out and follows the spoon, maybe just let him eat some off the spoon.

When you clean his cage where does he go? I followed some advice on here to leave Charlie in the cage when I was spot cleaning - he seemed less stressed afterwards than if he came out of the cage and went back to find it smelled different in places - and it stopped him wanting to come out for ages if things had changed while he'd been out. That seemed to help but I take him out and put him in his pet carrier when doing a bigger clean as that seems to upset him seeing everything moved. I have some bedding and hidden bits of food in his pet carrier and a small house (a mug would do) then I put it in a different room so he can't hear all the clanging cage noises, and put a blanket over the top which makes it dark and he tends to just go to sleep in there. If you don't have something that shuts securely like a pet carrier then you might need to keep him in the same room in a tub or box eg - something he can't climb out of - but put some substrate and food in it. Unless you kept one of his old smaller cages and that would do as a play cage while cleaning.

He does sound a bit anxious. If you wash your hands before having them near him he shouldn't see you as food, but I did read somewhere that some soaps make you smell tasty! eg some of the liquid soaps have honey or are floral scented. I use unscented soap or plain fairy liquid sometimes (but some washing up liquids are lemon scented). Or just any soap that is more clinical smelling and less scenty! I think he is biting your hand to see you off, as an 'intruder'. Does he do it out of the cage or just in the cage? He might do it out of the cage if you try to pick him up and he isn't tame yet.

I would do the tissue trick first, avoid anything but spot cleaning for the next couple of weeks and in a few days time, try him in the bath (let him jump into his ball eg if you can put it through the big front door of the Alaska).

[FreddyAndMe]

I don't put my hand anywhere near him in his cage, ever, I don't want to intrude, so it is out of the cage in the tub where I get bitten. I can't reply to everything in one fell swoop because I can't remember each querey, got to go and re read...

[chelsiedd]

There are a few things you can do.
1. Make sure to wash your hands with unscented soap every time you go to handle your hammy.
2. Associate your hands and smell with treats and food. Every time, at least for a little while.
3. Give your hammy space, if it looks like he will bite at you, if he is cowering away when you open the cage door or if it's in it's hide away when you open the door, leave him alone. That means he wants his space. Only approach, slowly, when he is out and about and awake. DO NOT wake him up or lift his hide away. He will get mad and bite.
4. Try a paper towel tube. He will climb inside of it and when he is at the other end, put you hand at the end, balled up in a fist so it's harder for him to bite you, just enough for him to smell you, maybe even a treat laying on your fist. Then put him back. It will build trust that he associates you with a fun tube but knows you will always let him go back home. It usually takes a few weeks for them to trust you.

A few tricks to try. Most importantly let him come to you, don't force yourself on him.

[FreddyAndMe]

He does have a potty in his cage but I don't know if he uses it, I think it may require relocating.

I seem to think I am trying to tame him too much - so far I have had him out every single day, is that a bit too much?

Again I will re read the post so I remember everything, I may need to post another reply.

[Pebbles82]

Sorry if I overloaded with info lol! Yes have a read and a think - sometimes it's the little things and routines that make a difference. Yes I would say every day is too much until he is tame. It's frustrating when you want to handle and interact with them, but very rewarding once you've done the taming for a bit. They like their own space sometimes too. I would suggest leaving him for 2 or 3 days now (just pop food and water out while he's asleep if you can). Then have him out via tube or ball, in the bathtub for 15 minutes or so, just exploring/playing in there. Then leave him another two or three days, then do the bathtub again. If he shows signs of wanting to come out meanwhile you could let him have a little run in his ball (no more than 10 or 15 minutes) if you have one - if not, and he shows signs of wanting to come out, bathtub again. I found that somehow the open space in the bathroom (plus it being a different room from the cage room) felt more relaxing, both for us and the hammy. If you have a potty litter tray, move it to where he has his wee spot (often a corner of the cage). Does he pee in his nest/house? That can make it tricky as they are very OCD about their nest and it's always best to leave it in tact if you can and not remove it. But if it's been pee'd in you'll need to spot clean the nest as well. If this happens then leave some of the original nest behind, even if slightly whiffy, and just remove the wet part, and any hoard that has been wee'd on and is wet (but always replace the hoard with new food). then put a new pile of torn up strips of toilet paper somewhere in his cage and he will take some to rebuild his nest.

So three things that stress them out:

1) Removing all of their scent during cleaning (they find their way around by following scent trails they have left and marked in places as they don't see well).
2) Removing the nest
3) Removing their hoard.

They are really protective of their nest and their hoard - it's their numero uno most 'don't touch' thing lol. If you remove their hoards they often start weeing on them to scent mark them and deter predators! Usually they just hoard dry food and it's ok to leave it. If it has been wee'd on then remove the wet food and replace it in exactly the same spot with a handful of dry (or just next to the spot if it's an awkward place).

It might be that he is associating your hand as the 'thief'! But for now, as he is bitey and not fully tame, avoid your hand near him and get him out in a tube, (they feel safe in tubes) or hamster ball and let him get used to the bathtub (and your scent from the toilet paper bedding) before trying to touch him for the next week or two.

[FreddyAndMe]

OK, I will do all that. I am going to tear up some loo role and leave it in my sleeve, hopefully he will take it! I know it is a bit to ask but would you mind making a quick list that I can follow? I find I miss all of the important things if I am going from a gigantic text because it is quite daunting haha! Thanks again!

[Pebbles82]

Sorry! I get verbal diarrhoea on paper sometimes (understatement?)

Ok:

1) Do the tissue trick (which you are doing).
2) Don't clean anything for at least 2 weeks (except minimal spot cleaning as above).
3) Leave him alone for 2 or 3 days except for putting food and water out, maybe when he's asleep during the day.
4) Get a supply of toilet roll tubes and a kitchen roll inner tube (or similar cardboard tube).
5) Get him out of his cage without trying to handle him - ie one end of tube inside ball the other over his house, treat in end of tube. If not ball, just tube and put your hands over the end before transferring him to some safe carrying thing, box or whatever.
6) Take him to the bathtub in the safe carrying thing (ball or box), but not in the tube - its too far to carry him in the tube and a bit risky.
7) Talk to him gently through the cage bars whether he is awake or not and tell him nice things and that everything will be ok
Have him out in the bathtub maybe every 3 days (eg about twice a week) with some cardboard tubes, a ceramic mug on it's side and the odd treat scattered.
9) Let him just roam (slither) in there at first without handling - some people say put a towel on the bottom of the dry bathtub first.
10) On about the 2nd or 3rd bathtub session, try stroking him gently on the back (eg with a toothbrush), or try with just one finger, one little stroke then remove your hand. Repeat in 5 minutes or so then leave it till the next session. And take it from there (have a look at the little video linked above).

Anyway - when you get chance, have a read through anyway maybe as I might have missed something there. The main things are - sort a cage cleaning routine that doesn't stress him - avoid removing all of his nest and hoards (and have a peek at Erin's cage cleaning tips). And take it slowly - in a few weeks you could have a friendly hamster who likes to sit in your hand and walk all over you