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Old 03-25-2008, 12:33 PM   #1
Yaffle
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Default Cinnamon to Yellow

Am I right in thinking that Cinnamon to Yellow would produce Honey?
Would the sex of each hamster make any difference (obviously I need one of each lol but I think Yellow is sex linked) but would it matter which way round they were?
Also does anyone have any thoughts on Honey in general in terms of difficulty in breeding/showing?
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Old 03-25-2008, 01:28 PM   #2
Spuds Mum
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Dont know about the showing aspect Claire, but if you put a pure honey female to a pure cinnamon male I think you would expect to get

cinnamon tort females ppToto
honey males ppToY

If I have understood it right - the female will give an x chromosone carrying To to all pups.

The male will give a non yellow x to the female pups - making torts

and a Y chromosome to the males, but they only need the one To to make them show the yellow.

Might be a very nice mating though, I would think. I know that there was a honey that got BIS at Topcliffe, so I guess that means they can do well - but Sue will Im sure be able to tell you the pitfalls if any of showing them.

If it were a honey male to a cinnie female then you would get (I think)

cinnamon boys (they wouldnt get the To from Dad as he wouldnt give them an x chromosome)

and cinnamon tort girls (getting 1 To from Dad and a to from Mum)
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Old 03-25-2008, 02:05 PM   #3
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Yes Yaffle Honey is a combination of Yellow and Cinnamon but it is not direct and the outcome differs depending if the male or female is the yellow as yellow is sex linked. Male honeys, ppTo- and females ppToTo.
Mating a yellow male and a cinnamon female would give a litter of 50% Golden tort females (carrying cinnamon) and 50% golden males (carrying cinnamon) Mating one of the tortoishell females to a cinnamon male will then produce a litter of 12.5% golden males, 12.5% golden females, 12.5% cinnamon tort females, 12.5% golden tort females, 12.5% cinnamon males, 12.5% cinnamon females, 12.5% yellow males and at last 12.5% Honey males. A long genetic road and a difficult chance to come by!
Alternatively mating a yellow female to a cinnamon male gives 50% golden tort females (carrying cinnamon) and 50% yellow males (carrying cinnamon). Mating one of the golden tort females to one of the yellow males would then give approx 18% yellow females, 18%yellow males, 18% golden tort females, 18%golden males, 6% cinny tort females, 6%honey males, 6% honey females and 6%cinny males
Whew. Once you get there Honey to Honey is true breeding.
There are various nice combinations from honey which I wont go into unless you really need to know.
Honeys had a run of popularity about a year back and one went BIS at Bradford Champs that year. I confuse them with cinnamons on first glance
Yellows are renowned for being somewhat fiesty and firey in temperament so anything with a yellow genetic content may inherit this characteristic I guess.
Are you thinking of going honey then? Your cinny male to a honey female would produce honey males and cinny tort females but that is assuming there are no lurking genetic oddities around
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Old 03-25-2008, 02:12 PM   #4
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Doh! I was thinking Honey was a honey female - is she a yellow female? - what a dufus I am, sorry Souffle, thanks for putting me right and actually reading the post instead of reading what you thought was there!

I think I made an assumption based on her name and you know what assume does? It makes an ass -of-u-and-me!
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Old 03-25-2008, 02:20 PM   #5
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Just out of interest what would you get if you did honey to dark grey ?
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Old 03-25-2008, 02:24 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spud's Mum
Doh! I was thinking Honey was a honey female - is she a yellow female?
I think Yaffle means the colour Honey not the name of a hamster called Honey though that would be a very nice name. Do you ,Yaffle or have I written a genetic waffle about a cute ham called Honey?
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Old 03-25-2008, 02:31 PM   #7
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Yaffle has a hamster called Honey lol - and I think I just assumed she was a Honey. So when she wrote about mating a cinnamon and a yellow, I assumed she meant Honey, then I made Honey a honey (following so far???? lol - my brain is soup)

It is a lovely name anyway - my beautiful dilute torbie cat is called Honey
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Old 03-25-2008, 02:35 PM   #8
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dg is a recessive Matty so I think they will all be goldens and yellow males as you would have no two pairs of recessives to give any colour so the colour would revert to the wild type - golden.
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Old 03-25-2008, 02:41 PM   #9
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As Souffle says Matty, and the litter would carry cinnamon (Pp) and dark grey (DGdg).

You would probably get golden tort females too I think Matty as the girls could end up with one To only whether Mum or Dad was the honey. But no yellow girls as two Tos would be needed.

Is that right Souff? feel free to put me right as this is becoming a mental workout, and I feel quite deficient in that area tonight!
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Old 03-25-2008, 02:47 PM   #10
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oops yes sm...my brain has also solidified and pawsy is up my sweatshirt hiding from the cat
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