Good Rat Information?

[RubyDG]

So Hubby and I have been talking about maybe getting rats later in the year after we move. I wanted to ask if anyone knew of a good rat forum, preferably UK based, that has a good community and information. We want to take the time now before we move to educate ourselves about proper rat care but I'm finding it diffcult to tell/trust what information is good or not. I know some members here keep rats so I thought I would ask for some guidance about a good forum and even some good youtubers

[hrl20100]

Rats make amazing pets!
I have 9 of them and I love them so much :') To me, they are better than hamsters, you get a better bond with rats than you do hamsters.
I like to think I know a fair bit about rats, i've had them for over 3 years now, so if you want to ask any questions feel free!
There are two forums that I know of.
The UK based one:
Fancy Rats
(Though its not very active)

And the US based one:
Rat Forum
(This one is more popular, but I still find that a lot of posts don't get answered. I am yet to find a rat forum thats as active as this forum is! Much to my disappointment)

[Pebbles82]

There's some information on here as well

National Fancy Rat Society

There's also some limited info on welfare here on this RSPCA sheet

http://www.rspca.org.uk/servlet/Blob...pplication/pdf

A lot of the welfare sounds very similar to hamsters. I know rats are prone to respiratory diseases.

You have a Mamble cage too! Do you think you will give Spikey a new cage and use the Mamble for the Rats?

[RubyDG]

Thanks for the info hrl20100 + Serendipity . At this stage it's just something we are considering as we will be moving to a much bigger place this year. So if we do decide to get rats it won't be for quite some time. While Hubby does help out with Spike (particularly when I'm ill bless him ) he really is entirely my responsibility. Any rats would be joint pets that we would share responsibility for, particularly since they need so much interaction. Cage wise we'd probably buy something bigger, technically the Mamble is a rat cage but I think it's a little small for Spike so I can't imagine putting 2 or 3 rats in it! In the meantime we're just going to do our research. I'll make sure to check out those links. I'd appreciate any advice or tips particularly on the practical difference between hamsters and rats

[hrl20100]

Originally Posted by RubyDG

Thanks for the info hrl20100 + Serendipity . At this stage it's just something we are considering as we will be moving to a much bigger place this year. So if we do decide to get rats it won't be for quite some time. While Hubby does help out with Spike (particularly when I'm ill bless him ) he really is entirely my responsibility. Any rats would be joint pets that we would share responsibility for, particularly since they need so much interaction. Cage wise we'd probably buy something bigger, technically the Mamble is a rat cage but I think it's a little small for Spike so I can't imagine putting 2 or 3 rats in it! In the meantime we're just going to do our research. I'll make sure to check out those links. I'd appreciate any advice or tips particularly on the practical difference between hamsters and rats

Just googled the mamble cage, and it was the cage I was thinking it was. I'd say its too small to house 2-3 rats long term. If it was temporary, then yeah it would be good for a few months, but a larger, taller cage will be much more suitable for them

Tips
-Always get more than one rattie! Though I expect you know that
-No wood based bedding/substrate. Some people use aspen shavings, but even that can trigger respiratory problems due to their super sensitive noses! My girls are all litter trained and in the litter trays I have a recycled paper based litter which is very good-though expensive! (Its from petsathome so its to be expected I guess)
-Males grow a lot larger than the females, so if you were to get males I suggest to get a larger cage, or to have less rats in the cage. Its also good to have additional space so they can get away from each other if one is being over dominant towards another one for example.
-Difference between males and females are mainly their personality traits. Females tend to be a lot more hyper, playful and active. Males tend to be a lot more laid back and lazy, they make good cuddlers! (I do want males!) As I said above, males get a lot larger than females, mainly in width and weight! They can get very chunky and squishy! Males will scentmark more than females (they dribble pee when they walk, but females do it too! just not as much)
-They need a lot of enrichment in their cage-they get bored easily and need plenty of mental stimulation. I try and change the cage layout around every week to make it a bit different for them. Ropes, hammocks, sputniks, bird toys, tunnels, cardboard boxes and perches/ledges are all very popular!
-They require atleast 1 hour out of their cage per day to allow for exersise and further stimulation. This is also perfect for you to bond with the rats and play/interact with them! Many people set up rat sized play areas (bigger than hamster play areas) and some good things to put in playpens are cat crinkle tunnels, cardboard boxes and you can encourage foraging by putting treats in a treat dispenser ball. Mine love these things and it keeps them occupied for a while!
-They do smell more than hamsters, its not a super unpleasant smell, I can't really describe it... Its not a urine smell, but they do smell.
-No hamster balls for rats to exercise in! Rats love to jump and climb, they can't do that in a hamster ball, playtime will be very boring for them if they are in a ball all the time. They are also bad for their spines as rats have to arch to run in them properly.
-Rats can have wheels! Females are more likely to use them compared to males, but its important to make sure you get the biggest wheel you can-just like hamsters You want a 28cm wheel or bigger if possible.

Any more questions just ask! This is something I just quickly put together, its not really in any order haha

[RubyDG]

Thanks for the pro-tips hrl20100!! Hubby and I at this stage are thinking about maybe getting 3 boys. The dribble-pee marking thing doesn't phase us so it's not an issue, I doubt we'd be handling them in anything but our 'house clothes' anyway (yup, tracksuit bottoms and t-shirts mostly ).

I'm going to throw out some questions if that's okay

I think 3 is a good number. Not to be morbid but if something happens to one of them, especially when their older, then I won't be left with a lone rattie. But do trio's work well in a group or is a quad more stable - or doesn't it really make a difference?

One of the things I am a bit confused about is the amount of suitable playtime - I'm finding everything from at least 1 hour to up to 6 hours per day. 1-2 hours is definitely doable but I can't see us realistically managing more than that.

How much of an issue is buck grease? Or is it just the case of giving them a bath now and then?

I also wanted to know about their sleeping patterns. Ideally I would want to play with them in the eveings with a quick hello cuddle and spot clean in the morning before work. However I'm not keen on doing playtime at 2 in the morning. I know their crepuscular but I'm getting mixed messages, it seems like most people will play with them in the evenings or even during the day?

Sorry for all the questions, they've been bugging me

[hrl20100]

Originally Posted by RubyDG

Thanks for the pro-tips hrl20100!! Hubby and I at this stage are thinking about maybe getting 3 boys. The dribble-pee marking thing doesn't phase us so it's not an issue, I doubt we'd be handling them in anything but our 'house clothes' anyway (yup, tracksuit bottoms and t-shirts mostly ).

I'm going to throw out some questions if that's okay

I think 3 is a good number. Not to be morbid but if something happens to one of them, especially when their older, then I won't be left with a lone rattie. But do trio's work well in a group or is a quad more stable - or doesn't it really make a difference?

One of the things I am a bit confused about is the amount of suitable playtime - I'm finding everything from at least 1 hour to up to 6 hours per day. 1-2 hours is definitely doable but I can't see us realistically managing more than that.

How much of an issue is buck grease? Or is it just the case of giving them a bath now and then?

I also wanted to know about their sleeping patterns. Ideally I would want to play with them in the eveings with a quick hello cuddle and spot clean in the morning before work. However I'm not keen on doing playtime at 2 in the morning. I know their crepuscular but I'm getting mixed messages, it seems like most people will play with them in the evenings or even during the day?

Sorry for all the questions, they've been bugging me

Three is a really good number in my opinion. Many people start off with two or three, I'd say three is better. If one passed away, then there is going to be another rat for company. That being said, more is always better as they are veryyyyy social animals. But if you were to get more than 3, the cage will be very large and you will have more animals to pay attention to. Personally, i'd stick with three

Playtime is atleast 1 hour per day. 1 hour is the minimum but more is always better due to their need for socialisation and stimulation. Normally my girls are out for 1 hour, but there have been times when I have had plenty of time on my hands and they've been out all day while I was off from college doing nothing haha (They can climb back into their cage whenever they wanted)

Buck grease is caused by testosterone so its more likely that the more dominant male is going to have more of it. Some people do bathe there rats to get rid of it, though I don't reccommend bathing regularly. It can be very stressful for them (though some rats really do love water! My girls don't XD) and gets rid of the natural oils they need in their coats.

Sleeping patterns, mine don't really have a set pattern as such. Whenever I open the door they wake up and come and greet me!
But they are often asleep at about 8am and wake up at about 12pm, then they sleep again and wake up again in the evening (and stay awake for a long while) at about 6/7pm to gone midnight. You can change their sleep patterns to suit you, my rats don't mind being woken up (unlike hamsters!) mine just lick me to death when I put my hand in the hammock to stroke them all! haha

[RubyDG]

Thanks hrl20100 - that definitely clears up some of the confusion! I'm relieved about their sleeping patterns - that makes it easier all round I think. My Hubby works from home so it's likely that he may also take them out during the day if their awake in the afternoons and he has a break even if it's just for 30min. So probably 20min in the morning for quick cuddles and spot clean, maybe another 30min at some point during the day depending in Hubby's schedule and then at least an hour and a half in the evening. I think that should be a fair amount of time?

I was thinking about playpen's or free ranging. Likely we would have them in our bedroom or Hubby's study/office. How difficult is it to rat proof a room - keeping in mind we would be renting? Or is it better to make a reeeally high playpen barrier from MDF boards? One of the things I've seen in videos is people just sitting around their living rooms with their rattie's and hanging out. How likely is it, once bonded, that you would be able to just mooch around the house with your rat's without worrying that they are going to run away?

I'm glad 3 is a good number, we're definitely going to go the breeder route. I think I'd only look at adopting once I had more experience though as much as I'd like to. Cage wise we'd probably go with something like the Liberta Explorer, I like the size and being able to split it in half to make 2 cages if I need to. As far as I understand that should be a good amount of space for 3 rats. I am on the fence about fleece or substrate and I know I need to decide that before I buy any cage because if I go for substrate I will need trays with at least 3 inches of height - is that right?

Anyway - sorry I am pestering you with questions. I just want to be sure I have all the information I need before we make the final decision to get rats or not. I need to know everything I can about proper care as well as the costs involved. I got Spike on a whim and it was the best thing I ever did but I don't want to try my luck a second time on a pet I have no experience with - it's not fair to the animal. Those forum links were great and I've been having a poke about but you're right about them not being that active in comparision to HC. The link Serendipity gave me for the fancy rat society was really good too and I've been having a read through their info . Any suggestions for good youtubers? I've been looking at Peachy Petparadise(she's got some hammy's too ) and Ratgirl44

[hrl20100]

Originally Posted by RubyDG

Thanks hrl20100 - that definitely clears up some of the confusion! I'm relieved about their sleeping patterns - that makes it easier all round I think. My Hubby works from home so it's likely that he may also take them out during the day if their awake in the afternoons and he has a break even if it's just for 30min. So probably 20min in the morning for quick cuddles and spot clean, maybe another 30min at some point during the day depending in Hubby's schedule and then at least an hour and a half in the evening. I think that should be a fair amount of time?

I was thinking about playpen's or free ranging. Likely we would have them in our bedroom or Hubby's study/office. How difficult is it to rat proof a room - keeping in mind we would be renting? Or is it better to make a reeeally high playpen barrier from MDF boards? One of the things I've seen in videos is people just sitting around their living rooms with their rattie's and hanging out. How likely is it, once bonded, that you would be able to just mooch around the house with your rat's without worrying that they are going to run away?

I'm glad 3 is a good number, we're definitely going to go the breeder route. I think I'd only look at adopting once I had more experience though as much as I'd like to. Cage wise we'd probably go with something like the Liberta Explorer, I like the size and being able to split it in half to make 2 cages if I need to. As far as I understand that should be a good amount of space for 3 rats. I am on the fence about fleece or substrate and I know I need to decide that before I buy any cage because if I go for substrate I will need trays with at least 3 inches of height - is that right?

Anyway - sorry I am pestering you with questions. I just want to be sure I have all the information I need before we make the final decision to get rats or not. I need to know everything I can about proper care as well as the costs involved. I got Spike on a whim and it was the best thing I ever did but I don't want to try my luck a second time on a pet I have no experience with - it's not fair to the animal. Those forum links were great and I've been having a poke about but you're right about them not being that active in comparision to HC. The link Serendipity gave me for the fancy rat society was really good too and I've been having a read through their info . Any suggestions for good youtubers? I've been looking at Peachy Petparadise(she's got some hammy's too ) and Ratgirl44

That playtime routine sounds great. I always think that coming out more often for shorter playtimes is better than one long playtime. It means they don't have to wait as long to come out again next time! Adds a bit of variety to their routine!

When I have time, my girls run round my room. But that involves me having to remove my clothes rail (because they climb it and go on my clean clothes, I don't apprieciate dribbles of pee on my clothes!) and the hamster cages and my shoes. I also have to block off my rabbit's cage! Its a lot of effort to make my room suitable for my girls to all run around in without them getting into trouble! Most days my girls come out for playtime in the playpen, they don't like it as much though because its a lot smaller than what they are used to. Up until I got Flump, they were running round my room every day, but now she's made it difficult for me XD

Its hard to remember to when I first let them all run around my room, but I can remember that the large space overwhelmed my more nervous ones. Roo and Elsie behind my bookcase for about an hour when I was trying to get them all in the cage again. I suggest starting small with playtime, and working your way up to a larger space. Now they are confident and comfortable with the large space, I can leave them for a while while I go downstairs to make lunch or something. I just shut my door so they don't make their way downstairs! I never leave them unattended for long periods though. I think the max time was 20 minutes (only because I got distracted and forgot all about them being upstairs! XD)

If you were to make a playpen, make sure its a tall one. They can jump 2ft easily!

The liberta explorer is a very good cage. I was considering that cage when I was upgrading my cage! You can put a substrate down on the base but as you probably know, it will probably get kicked out right away. Some people buy large plastic storage bins and put them on the base and put the substrate on there, that seems to work well.

I used to use fleece but I found my girls always ripped it up and pulled it up. It looks lovely, but give it a while and your rats will probably very soon start ripping it up. Its quite expensive to keep buying more and more if you have very destructive rats! What I do now is I have two litter trays in the cage. One on each floor, but in the same corner if that makes sense. I have nothing on the base of the cage, but because the girls are litter trained it works really well. I wipe down the cage every evening (so any wee puddles, and crumbs) and sometimes I have to sweep up any litter and droppings they kick out of their litter trays. But overall its very easy and I wish I always did it like this!

I am happy you are asking all these questions, research is very important as you will know I'd much rather you ask all these questions now, rather than when you have them and you don't feel confident in caring for them due to lack of knowledge! Best to get information now rather than waiting!

[RubyDG]

Thanks again for taking the time to answer hrl20100!! I've been watching rat youtube videos like crazy since I'm still off sick from work. So I feel like I'm starting to make a little bit of headway in the knowledge department but still a long way to go. I remember when I brought Spike home (with zero knowledge of hamsters) and I spent a good 2 months freaking out about every little thing because I had no idea what I was doing! So I definitely don't want a repeat of that.

I totally feel your pain about having to shift things about for free range time. It usually takes me a good 10 minutes to get the bedroom ready for Spike's playtime. Moving out stuff and then setting up toys and cardboard mazes and whatnot - which he then ignores half the time . I wish I had my very own pet room!!

I do think I'd like to go the free range route with rats, maybe just using tall mdf boards or something to block off certain areas. No point thinking about it too much at the moment though I suppose, once the move happens I'll know what space I have to work with.

One of things that makes me nervous is the height of the cage. I know I'm looking at it with my hamster brain but I'm wondering what are the falls risks with rats? Do you need to layer hammocks and things so there is never a straight drop to the bottom of the cage or is it something you don't need to worry about at all? I guess I'm wondering how hardy rats are when it comes to drops and falls from a height.

What do you think are the big differences between rats and hamsters? I know it's a rather broad question but I'm thinking more from a practical point of view as a pet owner. I'd appriciate your insight to this because you keep both