When to say goodbye? :(

[hrl20100]

My eldest rat and one of my first ever rats, Rosie, is just over 3 years old now. Obviously, its very old for a rattie and with her age, she has been having problems.
Her back end has started to deteriorate and she has trouble walking and getting about. The vet thinks she has some sort of arthritis in her lower back and she is on metacam to help with this. For the first two weeks, it seemed to be helping her. But now, its almost like she's back to the way she was before.

She can't climb the bars of the cage.
She struggles walking around, very wobbly, but she does walk.
Drags her hind legs down the ramp, if she doesn't do that she takes ages coming down the ramp trying to find the 'bars' to hold onto, often with her back feet slipping through the gaps.
Her back feet curl over when walking, its almost like she's walking on her knuckles as thats what the vet said.
When she eats, she has to rest the peice of food on the ground so she can stable herself, or she'll wobble around trying to sit on her hind legs to eat.
She can't reach her back legs around her to itch her ear, or face for example.
She can't keep up with the other rats in the cage (7 others, who range from being 8 months younger, to over 2 years younger than her) so they just seem to walk all over her.
Her fur is thinning as she ages. She doesn't have much protection against other ratties' nails so has a few scratches and scrapes on her.
The way she walks means her bottom is very close to the ground, when she urinates its often all over her tummy and her private area (I check this multiple times daily and give her a gentle wash down with petsafe wipes)

Despite all of that, when she's awake, she is still looking very bright and happy in herself.
She will still look around to try and see whats going on.
Has bright clear eyes and clear breathing.
Very keen appetite still and drinks like normal.

She only really comes out to eat, drink and go to the toilet (and of course for her meds) but when she is awake she is still very much a happy rattie.

I just hate seeing her trying to act like a normal rat, when its clear she struggles with basic things
I don't know whether to get her PTS or not just yet as she still eats and drinks fine

I know she's not going to live forever, and its been something i've been thinking about for a while now. Its been a very gradual process and I have made adjustments to her cage to accommodate for these, but now it seems like theres nothing more I can do for her

When I took her to the vets when she got given her metacam, it was actually orginally to get her PTS, but the vet didnt think she was in any pain. She said she was more than happy to let me try her on the meds if I wanted to and see how it went.
I just think her time is definitely coming... I'd just like to see what you all thought. But I think I will get her PTS soon

These were taken yesterday of her, as you can see her eyes are still very bright and she looks happy enough. I just don't know what to do anymore

[Sm_banks]

I know it is very sad but ending her suffering is the kindest thing you can do. Animals put on a brave face and try not to appear in pain or injured as a defense mechanism to avoid predators and being exiled from their pack, colony, etc.

[mylittlefluffyhamster]

i have never had tis problem :/ but i have a rabbt that has a tumour/ abcess on her face. it wouldve csted £350 (excluding tax) her face would have had a massive hole imn her face and it was a 20% survival rate meaning theres a massive chance tat she would've died. Her quality of life would have gone right down even if she had survived the op she wouldnt have been happy. So i made the decision to try her on the medication given (she hated it so we stopped it wasnt doing anything) and if/when her quality of life deterioates then i would have her PTS :'(
It seems as though her quality of life has gone down and it may just be time to let go. it's honestly the owner's decision sorry im not much help but you are doing the kindest thing :'(

[Cinnamon Bear]

I would let her die of natural causes unless she is only suffering. That has been my experience with 2 real sick RCD hamsters. I bought a shovel to bury one of my hammies cause she wasn't eating or drinking, barely alive but then she got put on anti-biotics for pneumonia & other health problems & she lived several more months & recently died of natural causes peacefully/ not suffering.

I guess you have to look at quality of life for your animal & yes the animal is suffering but is it worth cutting her life short when she could enjoy some more time?

Sometimes I think sickness is really stressful but definitely think it through if your pet is not suffering too bad I wouldn't have him PTS just yet

[Wanna Hamster]

I would personally only PTS a pet if they are in an uncomfortable situation. If Rosie is just getting old, I'd cherish your time with her and make her the most spoiled rat in the world. To make things easier for her, maybe make the cage VERY easy to get around and move the food and water near her favorite place to sleep. This must be so hard for you, I'll keep you two in my thoughts.

[Pebbles82]

"Despite all of that, when she's awake, she is still looking very bright and happy in herself."

I think when you wrote that, it said to me, let nature take it's course. For now anyway. It's a hard thing ageing, but she is maybe getting used to slowing down. As for the question in your post - when is it time to say goodbye. I don't know. Maybe there are some other conversations to have first. We all talk to our furbabies I guess - maybe ask her how she is doing some days. Tell her you want to look after her and help her in whatever way is best. Say to her if it is her time, it is ok. But it sounds like it isn't her time just yet x

[hrl20100]

Thankyou everyone for your replies, sorry I havent responded sooner!

Rosie is still with us and is still seemingly bright and happy when she is awake. Its just her walking and movement that worries me. The other rats just walk all over her, today I have found two new scratches and scrapes on her. They look as if they had been bleeding at one point...

I don't have a spare cage anymore. I would have done, but then I got Hugo It would have been fine for Rosie... I feel so stupid. I knew I should have kept that cage spare! I knew I shouldnt have got another hamster when Rosie is in this condition

Hopefully I can order the Alaska for Hugo and then Rosie can be moved into the small cage-very small cage, much too small for a healthy rat to be in, but for her I think its perfect size. She won't have any ramps to go down which is the main reason why I want to move her into a smaller cage.

I just don't know whether to move another rat in with her... I hate rats being on their own, really really hate it! But all the others are healthy and a lot younger, so are a lot more active... I might keep her alone... but just make sure she gets lots of extra fuss and love. She mostly sleeps anyway, only waking up for food, water and to go to the toilet most of the time so I think she'll be okay on her own in peace and quiet...
Opinions?

[Sm_banks]

I think she would be perfect by her self. Just make sure to give her lots of cuddles.

[Pebbles82]

I think so too

[hrl20100]

I really don't know what to do!
I posted this same post on a rat forum I go on occassionally (I don't like it very much, its no where near as active and friendly as this forum!) and have had multiple people saying I shouldn't PTS yet. Which is good to hear!
But, then I posted about changing her cage, and someone responded telling me I should get another large cage (they said the single critter nation, do you know how expensive those things are?!) and to put her with 2 other rats, ones that are more laid back. I only have one girl thats laid back, and thats only because she's being treated for a URI.

I really don't know! I want her to be happy, but if I have to get another cage (which i have no money or space for (mainly space!)) then its going to make things incredibly difficult!