Help with betta fish!

[Enh98]

If anyone is knowledgable on betta fish I would appreciate some help. We have a male betta in a 5 gallon filtered and heated tank. We did a 100% water change about two weeks ago (we rarely do a full change but we relocated his tank and thought it was a good time to do a full clean) and I've noticed he's become very lethargic. He lays on the bottom of the tank and seems to be gulping for air. His color is also dull. No other signs of physical illness. We did treat the water and let it cycle 24 hours before we returned him to the clean tank. Just tonight we did a 25% water change and treated with stress coat. I'm just not sure what to do next....

[Reduce Reuse Hamcycle]

oooooooh Well it's goo that you let it sit for 24 hours before returning him to the tank.
A few questions:

How did you put him in the tank?
Where is this new tank located? -- High Traffic area? Low Traffic Area? By a window? In a dark corner? Under or near a vent?
Where was he while the tank was sitting and the filter was running for 24 hours?
Were the two containers in separate rooms? If so is one room hotter or colder than the other?
Are you using a water conditioner? If so what kind?
Was your tank previously Cycled as in the Nitrogen Cycle? The Nitrogen Cycle is different than letting your tank run through the water.
Is the tank planted? If so have you added any new plants recently?
Any new pieces of Decor?

There could be a number of things happening with him

If you have a test kit it'd be good to test the water and list the test findings. Ammonia being a top concern. PH being another. It'd be helpful to know how much nitrite/nitrate is in the tank too.

I also highly suggest Betta Fish and Betta Fish Care because their info is usually great and they have a lot of helpful senior members. Although I have to warn you that many of the regular members can be intimidating and sometimes a bit harsh to new kids on the forum.

[Enh98]

His new tank is located in the kitchen, in a corner. He receives some natural light and the LED tank light. No vents. Fairly high traffic area. He was sitting on the counter in a bowl while the tank filtered. I'm very much a novice when it comes to fish care so I don't know what a nitrogen cycle is. No new plants or decor. I tested the water and ammonia seems fine, as well as pH and nitrite/nitrate. I'm considering euthanizing him because I hate seeing him struggle. And, to be quite honest, he's a fish. I can't afford to put out much more money to nurse him back to health. I spent $40 tonight on new water conditioner, a siphon and other things to help improve water quality. Thanks for your help!

[racinghamster]

I`m not a fish keeper but if you could call an aquarium store for emergency advice? Tell them what you have done and hopefully they can advise. I thought it was better to just do partial water changes with fish once the tank had been cycled to make sure the balance stayed right? Although I imagine full changes do take place in certain circumstances. Beta fish breath air but you have a heater and a filter so it could be he`s had a shock due to the change and additional chemicals being added?

If you have tested the water temperature and chemical balance and all seems well, it might be a case of leaving him alone to settle. Poor lad, hope he`s okay and managed to bounce back, but fish are delicate. I would call round a few aquariums for advice as forums can be slow or by the time they ask you many questions, it might be too late. x

[Reduce Reuse Hamcycle]

Well before euthanizing him give him another day to get better.

My dad froze m fish once and although he looked horrible for hours he was fine and dandy the next day. =] Eating blood worms and wiggling like a champ.

They can be surprisingly hardy.

He may have been temperature shocked if the bowl he was kept in wasn't heated when his tank was.

My sister killed her fish by adding him to quickly to his heated tank from his unheated spot on her bathroom counter.

If you're not familiar with acclimation I can give you a step by step. the short version is you need to keep him in a plastic cup or something that'll float in the tank, pour most of his water out of his cup, then float him in the tank for five minutes. once five minutes is up add some of the tank water into the cup and wait another five minutes, continuing this until the cup you're floating him in is almost full to the top. then another five minutes and you can let him loose.

This way he gets used to the temperature of the tank and any new chemicals in it.

I understand about the money issue. When I kept bettas and had planted tanks it was a huge money sink. A beautiful and enjoyable and highly educational money sink, but still a money sink. :P I'd do it again in a heartbeat if I got a 3 dollar raise. XD

In the mean time, if your current fish dies you can ghost the betta fish forums and learn about the nitrogen cycle.

If he survives you can carry out a cycle (very very slowly but still) safely in a 5 gallon with the fish-in method.

Or you can do what the cool kids do and set up a planted tank with a ton of stem plants and let them do all the work. :P I prefer planted tanks over cycled tanks because I never could get any of my tanks to cycle though I tried desperately. Planted tanks were my key to fishkeeping success. And they just look darn cool. (the low-tech method is the easiest and safest way to go. pressurised c02 is dangerous imo and over dosing that can kill your fish and sometimes even your plants)

[Reduce Reuse Hamcycle]

sorry I had to keep editing that last post because first I submit it without finishing and then all the typos. :P now I'm double posting to apologize. (also beware fish dept employees at the pet store, most of them know nothing. XD)

But yeah racinghamster, you're right with the cycle bit. If the tank is actually cycled (in regards to the nitrogen cycle) then you shouldn't do a 100% change unless your fish has contracted a serious illness that's contagious like dropsy that requires aggressive treatment. When Enh98 referred to cycling their tank though, I think they meant they let it sit for a while with the water conditioner in it and running with the filter on.

Although it could very well have been the case that the tank was cycled previously but the 100% water change killed the bacteria, but that's easy enough to fix with re-cycling (lol pun un-intended but wow that's great! XD).

[racinghamster]

Good advice from Reduce Reuse Hamcycle. I`m guessing that the 100% water change has had a negative effect on your Betta Enh98 and doing what has been advised might help using the small cup and exchange method. If he`s sank to the bottom of the tank, he won`t be able to breath air as bettas are supposed to? So perhaps helping him by doing the floating cup near the surface thing might help?

I read quite a bit about water cycling when I was thinking about keeping fish and most of the advice/tutorials I read were always relating to half or partial changes which keeps the tank with a remaining amount of good flora without removing it all and upsetting that natural balance. I had no idea keeping fish could be so technical! Which is why I didn`t bother persuing it. x

[Piebald]

Wow great advice from a hamster forum. Hope your guy recovers. Xx

[Enh98]

Hi all, when I referred to cycling my tank I did indeed mean we let the filter run for 24 hours before adding the fish. At that time we didn't have the heater on so both the tank and the container he was in should've been room temperature. I had no idea doing a 100% water change on occasion was a bad thing. Is there a suggested way of removing him from the tank and quarantining him to treat for illness or to let the tank cycle differently?

[Cangshu]

Could be the NO3 kicked in after the 100% water change.. I never do it because too much NO3 can kill fish. Never do more than 50%, not even when you're not cleaning the filter. that way you never have that risk.

Do a water test if possible and if it's more than 1 and the test turn a bit pink-ish, do a 50% water change asap and do another test the next day. if it's still too high, do another 50% change after 3 days. If you repeat it a few days, youll be out of trouble probably

and yes, plants really help keeping the oxygen up