Poor Dante my rat baby

[Gamina]

I would be questioning treating them all when only one is showing symptoms. With them being young rats baytril is not the greatest. Also with it just being a myco flare up its something that may have to be treated a fair few times over the rats life time. All the rats will have myco its just one who is low and showing the syptoms. By treating rats that have no symptoms they will be building up a baytril resistance which may be needed if they ever suffer myco flare ups.
Personally I don't treat with respy symptoms if they are just suffering snuffles with antibiotics. I monitor but that can become easier over time to know when your rat is really suffering with myco as you spend more time with a respy rat. It will just be containing symptoms when you can use things that will alleviate symptoms.

[Nikorusama]

Ah okay. Yeah the other two don't sound so bad but I do think something is up with Dante, like I said he is a little off his food. He did sound quite bad the morning I took him to the vets but the breathing calmed down since. He was chirping quite a lot and sneezing loads. He had been like that for a while but other than that episode in the morning hadn't really shown any signs of getting worse. As these are my first rats I worry about them. Do you think i should ring the vets back up and ask to speak to another vet that has been recommended by rat people in Leeds. They said the vet I went to see wasn't that bad but I don't really like how he seemed quite flippant and tried to BS what he was saying to be about them catching colds which I didn't think was right at the time. He spent longer telling me how to use a syringe...even though I work as a research scientist in a genetics lab and we use plenty of syringes there, I know how to use one!!! He didn't even look at the other two or listen to their chests. I'm a bit annoyed now because you trust vets to give you the correct advice. He gave me the choice of just treating Dante or to treat all three as he said it would spread not naturally I would choose to treat all three. Any he said baytril wouldn't do them any harm.

Do you think I should just treat Dante? Or none of them at all. Only problem is that I can't exactly go and tell the vet that I didn't follow his instructions because I got advice from non vets (even if they do no better) as the vets will think they are correct and absolute because they are trained.

[racinghamster]

Gamina is right about myco and it being something rats (and mice) carry and usually deal with subclinically IF they have a really good immune system and have a diet that combats it. Rats won`t eat if their breathing is laboured because it zaps their energy, a bit like when we have flu and feel rotten. Rats don`t catch colds, that`s an old wives tale I`m afraid. Mycoplasma is a bacteria that cannot be killed (it has no cell wall for antibiotics to penetrate) it can only be suppressed by certain drugs and these are usually the ones I mentioned earlier. Tetracyclenes would be your best bet in tablet form and are usually cheap and can be crushed and split into powdered doses. The macrolide drug Zothromax is said to be another good choice, but I only used it twice on my mice and it done nothing, but then my vet probably got the dosage wrong. Zithromax costs about £14 a go and is pre-mixed in a small bottle with water.

Usually, I only treat the one animal showing clinical signs and not the others. They are probably already carriers of the organism anyway and living with the rat who is sneezing exposes them to it, but isolating a rat shouldn`t ever be done because unless you are living in a pathogen free environment, that`s a pointless excersize!

Baytril can seem not to work if the doage isn`t high enough, so ask about that on fancy_rats because too low a dosage is just as bad as none at all. My vet told me that giving a stronger dose more frequently works better. It`s a bit of a balancing act depending on how severe the symptoms are really.

If of course you have more than one rat showing symptoms, then yes, it`s worth treating them aswell. Especially in the early stages before it gets a chance to take hold.

Give them as much food variety as you can that is full of health benefits and bacteria fighting agents like antioxidants (dark fruits like blackcurrants, blueberries, tomato, kale, broccoli, a little brown bread dipped in honey) and jumbo dry oats, Kallo organic puffed rice, wholegrain pasta spirals etc....

[Nikorusama]

oh okay I'll try the dark fruits, I already give green veggies and i'll change the pasta to wholegrain. I already put a little echinacea from rat-rations in their food as well to boost their immune system so hopefully that might do some good. My problem is i don't know the difference between normal sniffles and the not so normal ones as I have never kept rats before so knowing when to go to the vets and what info to listen to from the vets is the problem.

[racinghamster]

Your doing the right thing by trying the Baytril for a good seven days while symptoms are showing, but if Dante is still sneezing frequently after say, five/six days before the Baytril runs out and your not seeing much or any improvemnt, I would be questioning two things:

1. Is the dosage high enough and frequent enough?
2. Does the drug need changing to something that targets mycoplasma itself?

Sometimes it`s worth saying to a vet that you know a little about this bacteria because they will just treat you like a lesser otherwise and fob you off with baytril Not that baytril is a bad choice, it`s just that it`s their first line of action with small animals, so they won`t go straight into looking at drugs that are used against this organism. Sometimes they need persuading.

How is Dante today? Do your rats sleep most of the day? They usually just wake up for a snack and a drink and are more active in the evenings, but it varies between rats really. Rats can go about sneezing a lot but be otherwise healthy. It`s not until they get lower respiratory issues that they can go downhill and start abdominal breathing and get weight loss and stop eating.

Rats and myco come hand in hand sadly and I wish that wasn`t the case. I stopped keeping rats eventually because it got too stressful for me having to watch them get ill all the time and of the rats I did keep, one died of very old age and hind leg paralysis. Two of my other rats I lost to heart failure and urolithiasis, which is basically crystals/stones that form in the bladder and the rat passes blood. It can cause a lot of pain if not operated on. I just couldn`t face that again.

Keep their urine acidic by giving apple slices a few times a week.

[Nikorusama]

oh thanks for the info about the apple I'll do that too. Didn't want to overload them with sugar so have been giving mainly veggies and some chicken every so often. I guess it doesn't matter as much in rats than in hamsters then?

Dante seems okay, when he starts eating more i'll be a lot happier. He is smaller than the other two and I don't want him to fall too far behind growth wise. not to mention that being off food a little is never that good. I mean he is eating and drinking but not as much as the others.

Ratties sleep most of the day yes and they come and say hello to me if i go over and they come out of their beds when they know i have a treat for them.

[Gamina]

I would second what Racinghamster says. It will become easier to tell your boys patterns as you get to know them. I would defiantly treat Dante but I would be considering not treating the other two if I couldn't see any major symptoms. The fact that the vet did not examine these two would make me more inclined to ignore his advice to treat the other two. Especially if the other two are not snuffling, if they are the breathing needs to be checked to see if it is coming from the chest. I have my own stethoscope and while I do not claim to be a vet it is easy to monitor rattling breathing. I imagine people would look at my Caprica and believe he has respiratory issues as he is always sneezing but things are not always that simple. Caprica's chest is amazing and clear. I seem very lucky with him and his brother as they have always sounded very clear yet Caprica will sneeze away. He suffers from sinisitus that snuffles up his nose and that is what is making him sneeze. Without checking his chest a vet may assume a myco flare on the chest and perscribe antibiotics when actually some vicks or olbas oil (not applied to the rat!!) helps him more than antibiotics.
I know it is very very hard sometimes to not listen to exactly what a vet is saying but with any vet (or any good vet in my opinion) they will listen to you as the keeper of the animals and should follow up things you say as much as you follow up what they say. Rats being so prone to these illnesses and problems they are the relationship with your vet becomes a real partnership that will mean working together not just listening and following. This can be easier with a real rat specialist.
When we took Boomer to have his side stapled my vets advice was to separate him out from the other rats. I didn't agree with this and the only reason she could give me was that the other rats would rip out his staples... now I spoke to a few breeders along with what I knew myself and they agreed that rats do not bother other rats wounds and he would be more likely to become depressed and bored and rip out his own staples without company. I put him in with two younger boys and no one has even noticed his staples....

[Nikorusama]

Yeah Actually to be honest I don't think his chest is that bad its mainly sneezing. I'll keep on with the antibiotics though for a few days and see. I know something is up because he chirps whilst sneezing but it could be something similar to your rat's problem.

The vet seemed like he thought a lit of himself and subsequently talked down to me lol. He was saying something about being the best turtle vet in the country and I was thinking "that's nice but these aren't turtles..." I'm definitely asking for the other vet next time or if I have to go back.

[LocoRocoPanda]

I guess...If you ever did get turtles you know where to go

Hows Dante doing today?

[Nikorusama]

I think he is okay he seems worse in the mornings. I'm not sure he is enjoying the medicine but needs must.



Here's a pic of him <3