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Old 09-04-2017, 05:57 PM   #1
Drago
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Default The ethicality of scientific research with hamsters as subjects

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This thread discusses the ethicality of using hamsters in an experiment which may potentially be used to determine which cage size may suit the needs of hamsters in general. This thread will NOT share any images, nor examples of animal testing or the purposeful endangerment of a living creature. This thread is also not intended to advertise said specific experiment, rather, it is being used for constructive criticism and to hear the voice of this community


Hello everyone, I've been wanting to create this topic for quite a while now. Science is my love. I always must see evidence and know the "why" of things. Hence is why I've been planning this project for the longest time. Mods, if this is against the rules, please feel free to take it down. However, this is only intended to be me giving an example of an experiment I hope to carry out down the road, and determing what code of ethics it is I should follow, if there is to be any at all.

I'm still receiving my education, but should be qualified enough in a few years time to fund my own research experiment regarding cage size in Syrian hamsters. There is currently a study that I mostly abide by, but what it doesn't account for is bedding depth, amount of stimulation, type of stimulation, what gene pool the hamsters are from, time out of cage, type of enclosure, and human interaction. My goal with this experiment is to hopefully determine what size most hamsters thrive in, in an effort to help improve the standards of hamster care. Therein lies the problem however. In order for me to conclusively say that critter trails cause stress, health, and psychological issues, I must have tangible evidence of this. Which means, that I must keep a certain number of hamsters involved with this experiment, in a cage that would be, by almost anyone's standards, inhumane. This is where I've hit a block in planning. Do you believe it's ethical, for the purpose of learning and bettering care, to keep a hamster in a cage with no toys? Or a tiny cage? Or perhaps one in which they are subjected to being kept in their cage with little to no free time? Is it, in anyone's professional opinion, worth forcing this upon innocent hamsters just so we can say for sure which cage size is best? Often I keep all emotion out of every research project and study I conduct, but this is one in which I find difficult. I am envisioning Duncan being forced in a tiny cage for all of his life span (as these hamsters must for results to be conclusive), and for the sake of an experiment, and that's where I've hit a roadblock. Is this experiment for the greater good or is it completely evil? Perhaps somewhere in between? Please note that again, this is something I have been planning for years, and have been working on slowly and carefully. It definitely isn't a casual project thought up on the fly. I can share the entirety of my plans and documents as I gather them, to anyone who may be interested (with the exception of those containing personal information and locations of mine). I'd really like everyone's input, no matter how harsh it may be. All I ask is that you explain your stance, and use as much fact as possible to back it up.

Thank you all very much
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Old 09-04-2017, 06:20 PM   #2
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Default Re: The ethicality of scientific research with hamsters as subjects

I can't see a lack of environmental enrichment and tiny cages as ever being ethical,no matter the cause.We've seen obvious signs of stress and why Critter Trails aren't appropriate already,at least with Syrians,and to suggest that may be incorrect would in my opinion be almost like reversing the progress we've made so far(not saying it's perfect yet,but still much better than the previous standards of hamster care).There is more than enough tangible evidence,so it's not a casual statement those within the community make.

I would however suggest looking into other cage sizes,such as the UK standard 620 square inches/80 cm x 50 cm/roughly a 40 gallon tank.This would be far more relevant and progressive,and while there is certainly proof that it isn't a great Syrian cage size finding even more evidence of that would be good.However,doing so without any form of enrichment would still be fairly irrelevant and would not likely give accurate results of behaviors that would actually be seen.
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Old 09-04-2017, 10:58 PM   #3
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Default Re: The ethicality of scientific research with hamsters as subjects

I don't see why the hams couldn't have toys, but each cage would have to contain the same ones.
Suppose you had less hamsters, with each one having a small portable house where its stash was and its favourite bedding etc, and you could move that from one cage to another with its resident. Then the same hamster could be observed in each environment for a certain number of days/weeks.
You could have an experiment where you measured hours spent chewing against number of toys.
What criteria could you objectively use to measure stress or contentment? Would you have to stay up all night to measure it? Could age be used as an indicator? It's objective and you don't have to stay up, and you could use other people's data though you would need a lot of it given all the other factors involved in a Hamsters longevity. The hamster would have had to live in the same cage throughout its life and you could collect data that is historical.
It's fascinating thinking about it isn't it?
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Old 09-04-2017, 11:54 PM   #4
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Default Re: The ethicality of scientific research with hamsters as subjects

I'm afraid I have to say this sounds totally unethical to me, I don't think it's about keeping emotions out of it so much as respecting that each & every hamster is an individual with the right to the best life it can possibly have & by doing any experiment like this you are basically reducing them to "lab rats".
I think even if it were possible to see it as ethical it would be a very difficult experiment to do anyway as there are so many variables that have to be coupled with cage size it would take many hams & probably many years to gather any data that would be truly valid or useful.
I think most if not all of your analysis would ultimately be subjective which kind of blows the scientific idea right out of the water & I'm not sure what such a study would achieve other than to satisfy your own curiosity really.
I can't see a way of doing this that wouldn't be stressful to any hams involved or truly scientific tbh.
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Old 09-05-2017, 01:19 AM   #5
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Default Re: The ethicality of scientific research with hamsters as subjects

I know that you are a lovely kind and caring owner who wants to improve living standards for all hamsters and I think that aim is admirable. However, I really don't think this would be ethical. At least, I couldn't do it. And I think you would have trouble doing it too. It's one thing to talk about implementing an experiment like this, but to be able to distance your emotions from it for a number of weeks, let alone years, might be impossible.

Perhaps you could alter the experiment. Put each hamster in a dufferent dazed cage, but don't give any a tiny cage. We already know that the smallest cage a hamster should be kept in is 80cm X 50cm, so experimenting with anything smaller than this would be a waste of time as well as stressful to the hamster involved.

Accordingly, you could use a 80cm X 50cm cage as the smallest cage and give the other hamsters larger cages of varying sizes. This way, your experiment could investigate whether the current cage Suze we consider to be a minimum is, in fact, enough.

For consistency, give all the hamsters toys but make sure that they are the same toys. Give them equal amounts of time out and about for the same reason (and don't deprive any of them of this).
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Old 09-05-2017, 02:41 AM   #6
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Default Re: The ethicality of scientific research with hamsters as subjects

Before we get too involved in discussing cage sizes I would like to remind you all that the 80x50 cage size you often see quoted is technically only a recommended minimum and the RSPCA have since withdrawn this from their publications due to lack of research. Whilst some organisations may have their own guidelines regarding cage sizes, these are not enforceable and do not apply to a hamster in every situation. The absolute minimum which is the smallest cage that a hamster should be kept in under any circumstance (including hospital cages and travel cages) as recommended by the National Hamster Council is 1000 sq cm for Syrians and 750 sq cm for Dwarfs.

It is also worth mentioning that different countries will have different standards concerning cage sizes and what may be seen as too small in one country may be acceptable in another.
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Old 09-05-2017, 04:05 AM   #7
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Default Re: The ethicality of scientific research with hamsters as subjects

Thank you so much everyone for the educated and well thought out responses! This is some good feedback. I'm not going to respond to everyone's messages individually, as many have points that are generally the same, but will take certain statements from certain people's posts and respond

To address, and sonewhat back up what fluffagrams has pointed out, we know that 100-360 sq in is completely unethical. The problem here is not so much the hamster community, as much as it is the welfare of hamsters in general. As mentioned, the lack of research really makes setting a definitive standard (when it comes to organizations) quite hard. Besides that, regulations could be made much more easily and put into place to help the welfare of hamsters. Something I would like to note- every community of animals that I take part in (quite a lot!) all have definitive standards which are seldom argued. There is no wishy-washy unsureness of which cage size suits that animal best. The reason being? Research! For example, gerbils only need 20 gallons per pair. The standard used to be 10 gallons, until research was done, and they concluded that 20 gallons and larger could easily fit a pair, and that rather than running space, it was burrowing that was so incredibly important to these critters. Another little note is that the most research that has ever been done, has taken place in Germany. It also just so happens to be that they have the largest cages and best standards of all the countries, far surpassing any other countries. The problem though, is that most of the articles are in german, and have yet to be found and translated properly. I think a study of this in English, would greatly benefit countries which do mostly speak English. Now I suppose the argument that we'd run into the same problem with smaller countries that don't speak English not being able to read this. However, I do hope to get this translated best I can. Most countries outside of Canada, the UK, Germany, America, etc, don't have any standards for what is okay when it comes to hamsters. I believe one of our own members, hamsterita has even voiced this!

For an organization to see someone say "crittertrails are bad because they stress hamsters out" is not pressing enough evidence for them to say that it's true and create standards. There's just not enough research backing this up, and the research there is, isn't the best, leaving too many variables. I think though, if we could have a study that said with certainty, and tangible evidence that "yes, this stresses hamsters. Hamsters that are kept in cages of this size had heightened levels of cortisol", this provides definitive evidence. Anecdotes and subjective observations will never be the same as scientific research.

To address why I would take toys away- I'd like to note this would not be ALL toys, just quite a lot. The reason this would be done is to determine whether hamsters with a good amount of stimulation can be satisfied in say, a cage of only 800 sq in. Also to eliminate other factors.

All in all, I have more to add, but I will do so later today. If you have more to add, please don't hesitate to! Thank you all again
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Old 09-05-2017, 05:05 AM   #8
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This is a complicated topic. I think there are so many variables to achieve results. On the one hand, scientific studies, whether ethical or not, may prove things, if all control conditions are accepted - but do not necessarily lead to change in cage manufacture or education of owners.

So from your point of view maybe think about - do I want to improve conditions for hamsters, or do I want to prove scientifically that some conditions are harmful or cruel.

Sort of coming at it from different angles. As I said, it's tricky, because if you wanted to campaign heavily for change in cage manufacture and size and to educate people on living conditions, you need some authority to back up these claims. I don't think that has to be exactly scientific. For example - Panorama and other in depth programmes, make documentaries showing how something is cruel or unsafe and changing public opinion and highlighting an issue - without actually doing any scientific research. They don't need to. I remember a programme about how animals are killed for meat showing methods of killing that were quite obviously inhumane - and others which were clearly humane (apologies to vegetarians for that topic - it was an example). And likewise a documentary showing pet euthanasia and how electrocution was inhumane - and showing the fear the pet experienced just prior to the process. Coupled with a commentary explaining that and showing it visually to the viewer.

Both those programmes created a massive change in the Uk - they were broadcast on prime time television and people lobbied en-masse for law changes and achieved them.

I suppose what I'm saying is - if you show something, and highlight it, and broadcast it, you don't have to prove anything scientifically - you can just make people aware and they feel strongly enough to want to change things.

So I think scientific proof is extremely relevant in some areas - but not in others. I don't think it is right to cause suffering to an animal in the name of science. Observation and recording observations is another degree of it though.

So if wanting some scientific evidence it could be good to approach it at another angle. Rather than document the effects of hamsters in conditions which are extreme and cause them stress (eg long periods in tiny cages with no enrichment) - it could be done a different way.

So the German experiment on bar chewing and cage size (which I don't think is scientific enough as it didn't account for genetics, handling or pet ownership), observed hamsters in larger and larger cages and how bar chewing lessened the bigger and bigger the cages were. To do that, the hamster could still be in a decent sized cage for a week or two to start with - eg 60cm by 40cm.

I'm not sure it would prove anything if the hamsters were all from genetic backgrounds - because even in a very small cage, some might bar chew and some wouldn't. And presumably that's why the German research used hamsters from the same genetic background - eg bar chewer background! So they could tell at what size cage they stopped bar chewing! All that proves is that bar chewers need a certain size of cage really. Some hamsters may not bar chew but may have other, less obvious stresses. Other experiments have shown this by measuring levels of cortisol after euthanasia, from various different living conditions.

I think what is needed really is a law. And welfare organisations to agree a recommended minimum cage size plus certain requirements, specifically. They have the power to educate and broadcast things.

You may not be able to prove scientifically that a certain size cage is needed as a minimum for all hamsters, but you could broadcast that it is inhumane to keep any pet in a small cage without out of cage time or sufficient enrichment to meet their basic species-specific needs.

I don't think that is scientific - it's instinct as to what is humane and what isn't. But there still needs to be a law to stop people selling inhumane cages.

Hope that all made sense!

I can see your dilemma - you believe in scientific studies and that is important to you. I agree but not at the expense of causing suffering to prove something. Some would argue utilitarianism there (the greatest happiness for the greatest number) - saying that for some to suffer would lead to relief for millions more. And that is an argument. But personally I don't think it's right to cause suffering and there must be another way to improve conditions for the many.

Anyway what you could do is something longer term and less laboratory type research, by getting a group of people involved for a study - some who already have smaller cages with hamsters in, some who already have large cages, and make a documentary, showing what are the effects and issues people have found, showing someone being advised to upgrade and the changes it makes afterwards. Thus showing to other people the difference between a sad stressed hamster and a happy one who is able to exhibit normal behaviours.

Ultimately I think it comes down to welfare organisations. Swiss welfare is some of the strictest for hamsters I believe. They set a minimum depth of bedding of 20cm and a minimum cage size, ventilation, materials used all sorts. Yes human company and out of cage time is important too, and yes people can have their own creative choices - very large or slightly quirky cages - providing those basic needs are met.

I suppose that is why you want to approach it scientifically - to be able to persuade welfare organisations to set standards and publish and advertise those standards. Maybe enough scientific research has been done already, and what is needed is communication between welfare groups in different countries and an organisation set up (Nato for hamsters ) or United Nations for hamsters ). Type thing. A body that could then push through legislation on minimum cage size, safety of litter and required enrichment.

In the Uk there is a recent pet welfare law that puts the onus on owners to keep animals in suitable conditions. Unfortunately it's a bit vague as to what those conditions are.

But back to scientific research. Could you work with statistics rather than experiments? eg research the statistics relating to the number of hamsters who died below a certain age in certain cage sizes. Or the living conditions of certain hamsters who lived a long time?

I think one of the biggest topics is inhumane breeding practices and conditions those hamsters are kept in. Changes have been made for poultry and now they need to be made for pets (poultry is part of the food chain so it affects humans hence change more likely - much harder to get changes for pets). The RSPCA closes down such places - if they know about them.

So it would need to be - recommended cage size and enrichment for pet hamsters and recommended cage size and conditions for breeders. Plus a licence to breed required.

Anyway - I've lost myself - but if you wanted to do research scientifically - then rather than show what happens to hamster in bad conditions, maybe show the difference between average (acceptable) conditions, and very good conditions and cite other research and in depth studies, into the harm of conditions that don't provide species-speficic needs (ie enough exercise and stimulation) or unsuitable cage environment.

I believe most research cites other research to enhance an argument.



PS Going back to your initial post - you said you want to attempt to show what size of cage most hamsters thrive in. I think that is possible without keeping hamsters in poor conditions as a comparison.

One topic I'm particularly interested is further research into pain relief for hamsters and other small pets - it is inadequate, and particularly for conditions like Cushings, where the only licensed pain relief is contra-indicated. A focus more on care than on euthanasia rather than medication.

Last edited by velma; 09-05-2017 at 05:31 AM. Reason: Consecutive posts
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Old 09-05-2017, 05:29 AM   #9
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Default Re: The ethicality of scientific research with hamsters as subjects

As you have already noted, standards change as more behaviour is noted. This is the case with hamsters as well as the gerbils you mentioned. When I first had a hamster, it was reckoned that gerbils needed a bigger tank for burrowing but as hamsters ran on a wheel they didn't need a large cage size. This is obviously not recommended now so observation does make a difference but obviously this does not tell us enough when based on individual hamsters.
The problems with a study of this kind are the scale needed to draw a conclusion - both of size and time. Ethics aside, hypothetically you would need large numbers of hamsters, presumably from the same lines to minimise differences in temperament, to be able to observe if behaviours across the board alter. Too small a sample size and you are unable to tell much as changes in behaviour could come down to individual temperament. Other variables are toys included. Some hams will favour enrichment over space so you would most likely have to study each hamster in a variety of situations at several months each. Different cages, different style of cage, different levels of enrichment. Do you consider handling, taming & out of cage time with a story such as this. How little interaction do you have with the hams to ensure as little variance as possible in that regard across the board? Of course, with such short life spans, and altering behaviours over those life spans, then this is another variable that would need to be factored in. Gender would be another consideration. Some hamsters are a lot more sedentary & anecdotally this laziness seems to be more (but not universally) a male trait so you need to have either gendered studies or an evenly split mixture but still recording those differences. A lot of stories of this kind are observational but are of a large enough scale to see repeat behaviour patterns. As to recording things such as cortisol levels, you would need to account for other variables that could affect this. The stress of being tested could skew those results. A good example of this is sometimes knows as white coat syndrome in humans. Some people when getting their blood pressure tested will have an unusually high result because they are stressed about seeing a doctor & having their blood pressure tested. When given a chance to calm down & have it tested again the blood pressure is less high. It's not a direct comparison but it is something to consider.
Studies are so important to get right as their results can be quoted & used for a long time - Sometimes incorrectly if the original study was flawed. My favourite example of this in humans is the "fact" we all know about losing 80% of our body heat through our head. While the chances are that a good amount is lost through or head as it is an extremity and has a large surface area, the original study was massively flawed - the subjects were clothed but hatless. They lost 80% of their heat through their head as it was the only real place for it to disperse!
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Old 09-05-2017, 05:42 AM   #10
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Just going back to quoting other research so you don't have to repeat inadequate conditions, but can focus on wellbeing and ideal conditions - this article is good and quotes/links to masses of research to back up the arguments - which may be helpful. The sections on micro-environment and macro-environment are very good and also the effects of unsuitable environment can be the cause of abnormal brain development, physiologic dysunction and brain disorders.

It's a very good article overall, from a government source.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK54046/

I think the argument for the need for adequate enrichment being proven, can assist with the need for a certain size of cage as below a certain size it would not be possible to provide adequate enrichment, regardless of out of cage time, which is classed as a social need (and exercise presumably). Environment and enrichment and healthy temperatures and air quality seem to be the big things. Which makes sense. A human living in a very large house may be no happier than a human living in a very small house. But if the small house was so small there was only room for a bed it would be an unhealthy environment and lead to social and psychological problems and physical problems through restricted movement or the ability to perform normal functions.

But research into an ideal size and type of cage would be good.

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