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Old 05-13-2016, 02:09 PM   #1
zak
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Default UK laws and pine

What are the UK laws regarding pine? It must be kiln dried, right? My memory needs refreshed. I bought more than a few bales of wood shavings for back up purposes in case I ever run out of substrate and I thought it would be a good idea to poke a hole in one of the bales to see what it smells like only to be knocked back by the strong smell of pine which instantly clogged up my nose and made my eyes run.
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Old 05-13-2016, 02:44 PM   #2
pinkneon
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Default Re: UK laws and pine

I said this on Youtube, and was told it wasn't the law? I'd be interested in the answer too!
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Old 05-13-2016, 02:57 PM   #3
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Default Re: UK laws and pine

Not sure myself.I can't find anything regarding UK laws on kiln drying,but if anyone else knows it would be very useful!
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Old 05-13-2016, 03:27 PM   #4
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Default Re: UK laws and pine

i'm not 100% sure on the laws, but unless it says kiln dried on the bag I don't risk it. P@H doesn't say on the bag, but I've used Wilko's before and they're kiln dried and dust extracted.
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Old 05-13-2016, 03:33 PM   #5
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Default Re: UK laws and pine

I thought it had to be kiln dried by law. But I don't know if that law says by how much it needs kiln drying, or whether it's particularly stringent. Also sometimes pine can smell stronger when it's damp. It's always best to check it says on the bag that it's kiln dried. I always wonder how much kiln drying it's had though.
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Old 05-13-2016, 03:38 PM   #6
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Default Re: UK laws and pine

I think even kiln dried pine has some pine-y scent,no matter what you do.I'm also fairly sure that no matter how kiln dried the wood is,there will still be some phenols and that you can't entirely remove them.Luckily though there are tons of safe options out there anyways that aren't risky
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Old 05-13-2016, 03:45 PM   #7
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Default Re: UK laws and pine

This is an interesting read on the safety of pine, bit wordy though
http://buckysbunnies.tripod.com/Pine.html
I'm still looking for something concrete on the laws though
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Old 05-13-2016, 03:51 PM   #8
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Default Re: UK laws and pine

Regardless of the whole liver enzyme situation,there is certainly the issue of sensitive respiratory systems and the effects that scented substrates bring.Pine is going to have a scent regardless of kiln drying or not,which is a major concern.

In this case,there are many options which are fairly economical anyways.These options have no scent,are softer,are more appropriate for burrowing,and also have no risks if manufactured in a safe way as they all are for the most part.In fact,I think that Fitch worked out just as cost effective as pine shavings!

Concrete information on laws would help,but seeing as they're just not there as far as I can tell it's near impossible to make anything more than a guess
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Old 05-13-2016, 03:54 PM   #9
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Default Re: UK laws and pine

There are so many things out there about pine. I've seen that one Alfred Ham - but I've also read others with statistics. Nothing is certain I guess. But softwoods do contain a lot of phenols and kiln drying is supposed to remove most of them. I think what convinced me to avoid them was reading that the humans were affected by phenols if they worked with them. Sorry that's a bit vague - it's late! No bedding is perfect, but I'm quite happy with Fitch!

phenol Facts, information, pictures | Encyclopedia.com articles about phenol

Whether or not they do cause liver and other diseases, they can be an allergen to both humans and hamsters. In fact any wood bedding can be an allergen but hardwoods like aspen have virtually no phenols.

The kiln dried ones have had most of the phenols removed but I think if pine shavings ever smell strong like that maybe best not to use them.

I know when I've had pine shavings before they do smell much stronger if they get damp.

This is supposed to be the "original" article about pine shavings - and I think it's accepted that they are a risk if they're not kiln dried. The interesting thing I found about that piece is further down it shows that Spruce is equivalent to hardwood (ie virtually no phenols). So Spruce is the only softwood without the phenol issue - some German wood shavings are part pine, part spruce.

AFRMA - The Problem With Pine: A Discussion of Softwood Beddings

It's a pain Zak if you've bought them in bulk.

Last edited by Pebbles82; 05-13-2016 at 04:12 PM.
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Old 05-13-2016, 03:59 PM   #10
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Default Re: UK laws and pine

Dampening causing odor,you say?That's actually more proof that kiln drying doesn't remove phenols!Phenols are what give pine its scent in the first place,and in a hamster habitat they're definitely going to get damp somehow.If they get damp,this means the phenols are coming back and causing the pine scent to be there again.

I think this kind of proves that kiln drying isn't entirely effective though Definitely useful to know these things,considering the importance of such things!
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