UK laws and pine

[Pebbles82]

I don't think there is a perfect bedding though. Cellulose products like Carefresh go through a lot of chemical processes to get the wood pulp into the finished product. And no doubt paper goes through some processes too. Aspen can be dusty. Any of them can be dusty really. I'm allergic to hemp. I like to think the Fitch has minimal chemical processes as it is made from food grade paper, and it's just as cheap to buy in bulk as Pine shavings really.

Most things have a bad smell if they get damp though. I had a horrible smell from some fitch under leaky water bottle - not a mouldy smell but it probably was mould.

Basically don't get it unless it says kiln dried on the bag.

[AmityvilleHams]

There's no perfect substrate for everyone,of course,but there are definitely some which are the safest options!Personally I had a hard time deciding what substrate I would use,so I can definitely understand that others would have a hard time too.

Not sure if it would be the best option or if hamsters would just chew them too much to use the premade ones,but they make pads to be used under a water bottle for guinea pigs!That could definitely help to reduce odor for some hamsters if you're capable with sewing,but you'd have to find a way to attach one in order to make it not get buried under substrate and things like that.

It's just very important to keep in mind that kiln drying is not the perfect solution,and I think that as long as you have a completely safe option it would be much better

[Golden_Syrian_Hammmies]

Just reading this interesting thread. What do you guys know of chipsi the German wood shavings I did do some research on it but now I can't even remember what I read!

[AmityvilleHams]

Not sure how they compare,but as all softwood would contain some phenols no matter what you do it is hard to say Of course,it is not as easy to find safer alternatives in certain areas but there are still options even in Northern Ireland.

Delivery charges do go up when you're not in mainland UK with pretty much all websites,which isn't exactly unreasonable when you think about it.Still,there are definitely ways to get substrate that is less risky than pine even in areas where it may seem impossible at first.

Another good idea though that not everyone thinks of at first is a paper based cat litter.These are fairly easy to get in almost all countries,and Viovet even sell them(Viovet also ship to Northern Ireland and have a great range of products,by the way!).

https://www.viovet.co.uk/Pettex_Pape...Litter/c32752/ This would be a good example of a more granular paper based litter,since most people are used to seeing the rough pellet types.This kind would be better for burrowing,although perhaps not as good as some other substrates like Carefresh,but it is still much less of a risk than softwood substrate.

[Pebbles82]

The German Chipsi shavings are part pine, part Spruce GSH - and Spruce is equivalent to hardwood apparently. Shame they're not 100% Spruce. They don't actually say what proportion is pine and what proportion is spruce. The Germans apparently have a strict standard for kiln drying. So they probably are better than most - although I noticed that Chipsi also sell scented shavings, so that doesn't put them in the greatest light - except there are other animals other than hamsters that have shavings and maybe scented ones are ok for horses eg (not sure about that).

I'm not sure about guinea pig fleece or paper cat litter myself - fleece is ok for rats and guinea pigs I think but hamsters could chew it. I've seen reports of blockages from some paper cat litter - it's quite compressed - I prefer to stick to less dense paper bedding.

I do use the Hugro hemp mats on shelves - that's similar to having a fleece pad. The hemp mat is supposed to be safe to chew if they chew it, and the reason they sell it in such big pieces is I think it's supposed to be instead of substrate for sick animals - although it can shed a bit.

[AmityvilleHams]

Hemp mats seem like a much safer idea!I was a bit worried that it would get chewed anyways,just because it isn't exactly safe for a hamster to be ingesting.You can get grass mats in the US but they're nowhere near as condensed so I doubt they'd be as effective.

Still some paper options out there though even for those in Ireland,even without cat litter.Hard to say how many kg you'd get out of Carefresh once it isn't all compressed in packaging but it is 60 litres(liters in the US as my lovely laptop is reminding me,naughty laptop!)at around 20 pound,plus the cost of shipping which you'd end up paying no matter where you get substrate,and it's honestly not the only paper substrate I saw from various websites.Can't list them all though,but they're definitely out there!

[Golden_Syrian_Hammmies]

Thanks Amityvillehams, yeah we can get a good variety of bedding here and though I haven't looked into it can probably get horse beddings too like Fitch etc. we no longer keep horses so it has been a while since I have been to an equine shop. But I have also no need for such large quantities of bedding. I am familiar with viovet, have ordered a few things there recently and am still waiting on arrival.

Thanks serendipity that is what I remember reading one time I knew they were a pretty good substrate when it comes to shavings in terms of phenols and the kiln drying. I have used chipsi for years with all my hams. Yes they have a scented range but in actual fact they are not as scented as they used to be! I remember years ago the apple properly smelling of apple when I had it, really fresh smell now the scented ones don't smell tbh there doesn't seem to be any difference between the unscented and scented to me. But that doesn't mean to say they haven't added something. I probably will just stick with the unscented. I really like it as a substrate and it is extremely reasonable in price. Recently I have started mixing it with carefresh so having a deep chipsi underlayer and care fresh on top.

[Pebbles82]

I've got about three layers in Charlie's cage now lol! He has some aspen at the bottom (which I used when I ran out of substrate and decided to just cover it rather than remove it - he wasn't keen on it). Then loads of Fitch on top. Then another bag of brown paper substrate (bought when I ran out of Fitch so thought I might as well use it). And then a bit more Fitch.

[WinnieTheHam]

I think kiln dried is fine, I used to be against it but thought if hamsters lived on it for years and years and lived a good life (Hammy lived almost 5 years on shavings with no problem at all) then it shouldn't be a problem. I use kiln dried shavings and my hamsters are fine on it. It doesn't smell strong but still does smell of pine when it's fresh out of the bag, if it's left to air out the smell eventually goes away. I don't notice a difference if it's wet or not.

[M3gan]

I have ordered the Chipsi Super Pet Litter which is kiln dried pine and spruce. I can tell you what I think when it arrives, in term of dust and odour. I'll even pour some water on some