Pet shop hamsters? Whats the problam?

[StarlightSerenity]

I don't buy from pet stores that sell animals as it's aiding it too.

[hammys r best]

I don't think the answer is as simple as boycotting pet shops. Small breeders will never keep up with the demand for hamsters (it seems almost impossible to obtain a hamster from a good breeder unless you attend the hamster shows). The best way forward would be for larger scale breeders to be rigorously monitored, conditions for these animals to be much higher (and enforced by law) and for pet shops to be educated and in turn educate the public they sell to. Best to lobby MPs and your local pet shops with the help of your local rescues.

[Gamina]

Ok a couple of things, and as others have said these are my opinions and others are welcome to agree or disagree.

Originally Posted by Van Diemen

Education is what is needed but not a debate. I've been pushy with my opinion and so have others. People browsing and looking to join here could be thrown off by so many passionate people lol.

As a person who works in education (although in a broader sense e.g. I do not educate about hamsters!) this statement is flawed. Debate is one of the top tools in teaching and learning in any context. Allowing individuals to take in all sides of an argument and make a considered and measured decision on what they believe is crucial not only in learning about a situation but indeed in resolving it.

In terms of the treatment of small animals and whether or not boycotting is a good idea I would like to mention my own experiences and so avoid being seen as simply regurgitating or agreeing with someone else already spoken ideas. My experience relates largely to keeping and buying rats and so could be argued against in relation to hamster however I feel both animals fall into a similar bracket in the way they are sold and peoples views on them.

I own six rats, each rat has been given the same life by me so as a control group for the differences between breeder rats and pet shop rats they do quite well.

Two came from a breeder, they are well rounded, happy individuals who bond well with humans.

Two came from a breeder who had rescued their pregnant, 6 week old, mother from a pet shop and are again happy individuals, their mother however died shortly after their birth from the strain of pregnancy at such a young age.

Two of my boys are pet shop boys, both being P@H rescues. One is a poor, damaged, old man who has a perpetual hatred of humans brought about by having little to no human contact for the first 8-10 weeks of his life and then the contact he got was from a six year old boy picking him up by the tail. After he bit the boy he was returned to the shop as an aggressive pet and not touched by the pet shop staff.

The second of the pet shop rats was born within a week of the two breeder rats who were also from pet shop stock. Meaning that I have two pet shop rats brought up from birth by a breeder to compare to a rat that was from pet shop stock but grew up from rodent farm to shop shelf. As a brief run down this rat had no contact with any other rats from the time he was put into the pet shop till he was 12 weeks old. He didn't understand how to interact with other rats, or that he could move up and down levels in his cage, he was skin and bone. Even now although all the rats have the same diet he weighs a meager 300g compared to the two rats raised by a breeder who would have had a correct and well balanced diet and are 650g each. This has nothing to do with his health as he is taken, as they are for a yearly check up. It is simply that they had a better start in life than he ever could have hoped for. Those are my personal reasons for no longer shopping at any pet shop apart from my small local who does not stock animals for ethical reasons. Whilst I may not make a difference alone I can say with a clean conscience I do not go anyway into creating the problems that poor Boomer has had to go though.

I think we do need education. This should not solely be the remit of organisations such as the RSPCA, it should be in whatever way we can. Sharing stories like this with one or two members will still begin to make a difference.

I do not believe we should be batting around the idea that rodent farms are acceptable because they employ people, and we should not be arguing that ethical breeders can't be the way forward. Consumer culture has led us to believe that these animals are pocket money because they are not important? Because we deserve them cheap? Because they don't live as long as a dog we should get some discount? All cheap prices do is make people believe that the animals in some way are an easy ride. A rat will cost you under £10 from P@H but the care they need is equal to that of a cat or a dog, maybe the price should reflect that. People will argue that no one will pay more for a small animal but I know I for one would. If the price is to high for people to pay they obviously aren't willing to commit to an animal that could end up needing vets bills priced at £200+. I think the way these stores throw these animals around at cheap prices almost shows a consumer that they are not important, don't need as much care etc. etc. If people had to pay higher prices from breeders or would wait maybe a lot more hamster would have a better life. I shudder to think about the number of hamster who must be living in a cage under half the size of what they need because they were told by a member of staff it was fine.

I understand that as an individual I do not have the power to take on a big business such as the huge pet industry but the main reason I personally boycott pet shops is the guilt, I do not want to think I am helping and perpetuating a problem that is in short animal cruelty in rodent farms. Its like when the children in the playground shout "oh I slapped/hit/ yelled at X because everyone else did" or when the London rioter holds their head up high and says the looting was ok because everyone was doing it. I would not like to think that even in my small insignificant way I had helped perpetuate a system of animal cruelty. Sure someone else will simply buy the animal that I could have had but is that really the point? By seeming to rescue one animal from a bad pet shop system I am condemning hundreds, in years thousands in the rodent farms.

[RachelAnne]

Oh my god, I have just looked at that website and I'm horrified. Can't someone do something about this??

[Onion]

It isn't that simple Rachel, as this thread shows I'm guilty of getting animals from pet shops as well, but most of the time I rescue

[RachelAnne]

Originally Posted by Onion

It isn't that simple Rachel, as this thread shows I'm guilty of getting animals from pet shops as well, but most of the time I rescue

I know.. I got my hamsters from a big petshop chain and didn't have a clue it was like this. To be honest I've never really thought about it, which is quite shallow of me. Cant we on Hamster Central get a charity or something up and running to try and change things..

I don't know?

I have posted the site on my facebook to make people aware.

[Hammymad]

I am also guilty of it,i do have 3 pet shop hams (Cookie,Tinker and Rambo) but now I do rescue also (BB and Pudding)
And from now on I will rescue/adopt hams in need x

[RachelAnne]

Me too, just shows how useful and how much knowledge you gain from forums like this.

[NotsoLittleOlive]

I think boycotting, by people who question the practice of the rodent mills is essentially pointless, as they aren't supplying your demand. They're supplying the much greater demand of the many many people who do see them as cheap, disposable and replaceable pets and thus don't care where they have come from.
I think it's unfair to make people who get their pets from large stores feel that they're causing/exacerbating this problem or a poorer owner because of it. As it stands, breeders alone cannot meet that demand. Or at least good breeders - I've found a few questionable ones in my area but none that I see as anything better than a scaled down mill. In the end I got my ham from a small shop (on recommendation of another shop owner who's careful about which breeders he uses), but not everyone is lucky enough to have that option.
Nothing will change until the people whos pockets it affects have a reason to - hence legislation - like lots of people have said.

[fluffymunchkins]

Originally Posted by Van Diemen

I know i'm going to get shot down in flames for this but i'd like to offer an alternative opinion.

I understand that these rodent mills are horrible and wrong, they aren't ethical and it is cruel. However - I also view it as a fact of life.

I don't think the way forward is to try and boycott pet stores.

That article linked here, talked about how the rats are put to sleep and frozen for reptile food.
This isn't any different to our mass production of chickens, sheep, cows etc etc for human consumption.
Reptiles need to eat and unfortunately they require things like rats and mice for food. It's just the cycle of life.

What I think is needed - is more education. I cannot truthfully say I am against these mills because they do serve a purpose.

The people who run them earn an income
The reptiles they supply get food
The pet shops they supply - supply people with pets

When you break it down like that - you can't really be against it because people need to earn a living, reptiles need to eat, and people love having pets.

I think rather than boycotting and spreading fear and hatred for these set ups, there should be campaigns for better conditions, backed up by organisations such as the RSPCA and the Government.
.

I can see exactly where your coming from and to some extent I agree. By no means do i agree with the way mills are run, nor do I wish to support them. But without pet shops hamsters would have never been available to such an extent. Breeders big enough to support the demand for pet hamsters would be no different to a mill. Many people don't have access to breeders, I don't see any problem with supporting well run pet stores like one of my locals. It only takes one good example for more to follow.

Where I disagree is that even though it is a 'fact of life' it doesn't have to be. If we want change we need to make change. There has been gradual improvement and I hope to see even more. At the moment I'm in no position to be able to make any significant difference alone. But I'm not going to sit here and complain about the way pet stores are run, I'll advise those unaware of the problems of pet stores. And eventually move on to make a change within pet store businesses myself. Sounds beyond ambitious, but thats what needs to be done.