Introduction and sad story ... and need a little advice ...

[MrsB]

Hi I am a new member and hope to be a long-time member of this community, but today I am starting off with 0 hamsters in my life and am inordinately sad! I decided to buy two hamsters for me to share with my granddaughters (remembering a much-loved Syrian in my childhood). I did my homework and found a responsible breeder of Campbell's Dwarf hamsters and bought two male litter mates. My girls have been incredibly responsible and loving and the hamsters have been amazing pets. We've had them a month and last week I discovered tiny black insects on them (the size of flea poop). I found homemade remedies on the internet for hamster mites, but didn't feel comfortable diagnosing or treating by myself, so I called my vet (who has heroically treated a random selection of dogs, amphibians and reptiles over the last 30 years, but never hamsters). I was unable to get an appointment with him or any vet in less than a week due to the pandemic, but finally saw him yesterday. Took our two little guys in and he suggested ivermectin but we were unable to find a place to purchase it. He decided to purchase a quantity for me on the internet, but in the meantime would give my little guys a tiny dose of what he had in his office. One the way home, they both appeared to react poorly to the medicine and one died last night and the other died this afternoon. I am shattered! In the meantime, I called the breeder when I was trying to figure out what to give them and during that conversation she suggested that we might have got mites from the bedding that she gave me when I purchased them!! I don't know what to think. I intend to replace them (although replace is not the right word!!) and am no longer sure I should go back to my breeder! I am not looking to blame anyone, because I think we all did the very best we could, but I am looking for advice on how to move forward (beyond sanitizing the cage and everything in it.)

[LunaTheHamster1]

Mrs B welcome and I am so sorry to hear this. What a horrible thing to go through, I am so sorry for your loss.

It is possible that the mites came in on the bedding or food, lots of people have talked about such things on this forum. Some people freeze these things because of that very reason. I don't really know anything else ahout mites so couldn't advise anything else from your photo, but someone else on here might be able to help.

So in answer to your question, going forward you could freeze the food and bedding you buy in future if you are able to do so. In the meantime, I would probably bin all that you have got left and start a fresh.

[cypher]

Welcome to HC MrsB, I’m sorry it’s under such sad circumstances.

The mites that naturally occur on hams & can get out of control aren’t visible, there are countless types of mites but they can be brought in with bedding or any natural materials like wood, hay, dried plant material & foods.
I’ve never had a problem with bedding myself & don’t freeze it as it’s just not practical with my tiny freezing space but it may depend on which bedding you use, I use a paper based substrate, kaytee clean & cosy which is highly unlikely to be a source of any kind of mites.
I do freeze all my hams dried food, any wood, cork or other natural plant items just to be on the safe side, freeze for a minimum of 48hrs but preferably a week, I keep food in the freezer until I need a new bag out.

It is possible that the mites came with the bedding the breeder gave you but I would have expected them to appear sooner if that were the case so they may have come from some other source.

I’m so sorry for the loss of your two little hams, it does sound as though they just reacted badly to the medication, it can be toxic & hams need such a small dose it may just have been too much for the,

[Pebbles82]

I am so very sorry. Cypher is correct - hamster mites are invisible to the human eye and Invermectin is quite toxic and should only be used if there is a firm diagnosis of mites by the vet taking a skin scraping and looking under a microscope (that's how tiny they are). Sadly a lot of vets don't know much about hamsters. It is unusual to hear of a hamster dying after being treated by Invermectin though, but it can make them unwell.

The bugs could be any kind of bugs that got into the cage - some bugs are also called mites (eg you can get flour mites) but they are not the same as the demodex mites which live on hamsters naturally and only proliferate to cause a problem if there is illness or a low immune system that allows them to proliferate. Signs of demodex mites are balding sore areas of skin and excessive scratching - and they aren't visible.

They could be any kind of bugs and I would always suspect food over bedding as commonly bugs or eggs are in hamster food and hatch out in warm weather (and it has been particularly hot recently). It can be in bedding but not usually if it's a new bag and stored inside rather than in a damp cold place like a garage etc.

For this reason I now freeze all hamster food for a week. After having a very unpleasant outbreak of moths in a hamster cage (that went right through the house!). Moth eggs are also invisible to the human eye but freezing kills them.

I am so very sorry this has happened. A full cage clean and change of bedding may well have sorted it out. For the future you need an exotic vet - they know a lot more about hamsters - if you google there should be one in your area - I also check the individual vet bios to see which vet has a particular interest in hamsters or "small furries". It is quite amazing how little some vets know about hamsters.

It does sound like very bad luck though and very sad.

In terms of disinfecting the cage - I was recommended to use this Beaphar small pet disinfectant after my moth outbreak - by our vet. Strangely it is very difficult to get hold of small pet disinfectant at the moment (or any disinfectant) - due to supply and demand I think with the pandemic. But it is probably sold locally by pet shops as well. The main thing is to make sure you get it into every crevice of the cage base and bars and thoroughly clean them, then rinse it off. It has quite a pleasant smell and the rinsing off is only really to remove any scent as hamsters can be affected by scents - they have a very sensitive respiratory tract.

If you can then leave it outside to air in the sun for a couple of days it helps remove the scent and also the air and sun helps finish the disinfecting process. Although it's forecast to rain for a week now! A good clean should be enough. Leaving it out in the rain is fine too but I wouldn't do that with the metal bars as when I did that they started to go rusty!

Generally it's recommended to wait a couple of weeks after disinfecting before using the cage for another hamster - if there has been any disease. It seems unlikely they died of disease but it is possible.

I would freeze all hamster food for a week (it defrosts very quickly afterwards - in a couple of hours) and then store it in airtight containers - I use lock and lock storage containers. I have a rota going now - one bag in the freezer, then when I start running out of food I get the bag out of the freezer and put a new bag in the freezer.

It's probably best to discard any bedding you have, just in case, and buy new bedding. Kaytee clean and cosy is popular and hamsters like it.

It's much less common that bedding has bugs in unless it's got damp or been stored somewhere other than indoors for example. It is almost always from the food.

And not just hamster foods - other pet foods as well commonly have moth eggs or other eggs that can hatch into bugs. That are invisible to see. Apparently moths can even lay their eggs through the plastic bags! But freezing does the trick. Flour can have moth eggs in as well and in hotter countries people get outbreaks of pantry moths from flour.

Apart from that it has been hot weather and any kind of bugs can get in and start hatching. But it is probably from hamster supplies and the heat. Some people freeze bedding as well - but I have never had the freezer space to do that and have never had a problem with bedding - as long as its stored indoors.

Hay is a big culprit for "mites" (not demodex mites) - ie visible mites that can get into a cage and proliferate. Hamsters don't need hay - some people use it but if you do or use anything with hay stuck to it (eg some toys have this) then freeze those first too.

I am so glad you came on here because there are a lot of experienced hamster owners and breeders on here and I am sure everything will go well with your next hamster - it is always worth checking on here over anything like bugs or about any treatment for mites (or to see if it is actually hamster mites).

I am sure there will be an exotic vet in your region, even if it means travelling a little bit further than a very local vet.

With a sibling pair also - had they survived, they may have needed separating at some point, so you always need a spare cage with a pair. They often start fighting - especially when they get hormonal and can fight to the death or seriously maim each other. So that is something to watch out for if you get a pair. It can also lead to dominant behaviour and bullying with one getting smaller and the other getting bigger (eating most of the food). And the cage needs very carefully setting up to avoid territorial behaviours (no levels, two houses, two wheels, two water bottles, houses with more than one entrance). So just a tip in case you get another pair.

[Pebbles82]

Sorry this is the Beaphar

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Beaphar-Dee...7584182&sr=8-5

While you're on here, you may want to check out suitable cages! Not sure what cage you have but it is also very common for people to be sold the wrong kind of cage - there are a lot of bad cages out there but also some very good suitable ones. The biggest risks with an unsuitable one are fall risks (if they are too tall) and not enough floor space. For a pair of dwarf hamsters you would be looking at something with a floor area of at least 75cm by 45cm really and low height and no platforms.

We currently have two syrians. One is in a 100cm by 50cm cage and the other in an 80cm by 50cm cage (which is about the minimum for a syrian). Things have changed a lot over the years! We had a hamster 25 years ago that had a very small cage - but he did get a lot of out of cage time.

Also re breeders - there are many unethical breeders out there as well. If you want to check out breeders registered with the National Hamster Council I've linked them below. Although many don't have litters available very often.

If you're finding it hard finding pedigree dwarf hamsters or a good breeder, would you consider adopting a rescue hamster? There are a few rescues that also have litters (unexpected pregnancies). Depending what region you're in.

https://hamsters-uk.org/finding-breeders/

[MrsB]

Thank you all for so much good advice. I feel armed and (almost) ready to move forward. Thank you, thank you.

I must also confess that I am not in the UK. I hope it won't get me booted out of this lovely group. When I found you on Google, I didn't realize you were based in the UK and I saw nothing that said I had to be in the UK to join. When I read the forum and saw all the kind knowledgeable responses I knew I wanted to join and actually my credentials are good. I was born in Wick and my dad's family is from Glen Urquhart. I didn't become a voluntary Scottish exile until I was 21 and heard that the streets of New York were paved with gold. I've since settled in San Francisco, but only stay in the US because of my family.

So that's my proper introduction.

My granddaughters are currently away with their father for a week and I am now struggling to figure out how to break the news to these children that their beloved pets are gone!!

... oh, and a tip on the flour infestation. I learned to throw a handful of dry bay leaves in my bag of flour. It doesn't affect the taste and has always kept the bugs away for me.

[MrsB]

Thank you all so much ... I did have the two dwarf hammies in a 40 gallon tank and all on one level with tons of bedding (about 6") and I am using Kaytee Clean and Cosy. Thank you for the tips on freezing their food ... I am on that now! As I am doing more research, I am very afraid that the heat may have been a contributing factor ... oh and I did try to get a rescue, but due to the pandemic, there are just no rescues available in my area.

[Pebbles82]

It might have been the heat combined with the dose of Invermectin. Although if they only became unwell on the way back from the vets it does sound like the treatment may have been the issue. You had a good set up for them.

Are you in the US? I believe there aren't so many rescues or breeders there. The only other thing that could have contributed is a genetic factor. Whether they were pure Campbells or not. But the majority of dwarf hamsters are hybrids (a hybrid of Campbells and Winter Whites). They may look like a Campbells or a Winter White but be a genetic hybrid of both species. They have been interbred for a long time. So unless your breeder had clear pedigree lines they are likely to have been hybrids. Hybrid dwarf hamsters are prone to certain conditions and genetic problems. But then any hamster can be as well. In particular hybrid dwarf hamsters are prone to diabetes so need a sugar free diet really.

It is just very sad especially when they are young. Would you consider another Syrian? A 40 gallon breeder tank would also be ideal for a Syrian. They tend to have less health issues (generally) but even then they can be born with a genetic condition although less likely.

[MrsB]

I would love a syrian but I think two hamsters is better for the hamster as well as for my granddaughters ...they share the handling without overwhelming a single hamster ... and you're right I am an exiled Scot from Wick living in San Francisco area. Every time I found a possible (non-aggressive) hamster at a rescue, I found myself competing with other families. The pandemic has a lot to answer for ... !!!

[Presley524]

I’m so sorry for your loss may they rest easy over the rainbow bridge. Since you’re in the US, you could also try looking on Craigslist for someone rehoming a hammy. In my area, there’s constantly hammies being regimes on Craigslist