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Old 06-26-2017, 05:14 PM   #1
Mooboo
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Default Confused about Max's sex

Hi, Newbie poster here.
I purchased two Hamsters from P@H in the UK back at the beginning of April. I opted for two 'Russian Dwarf Hamsters' so that my two autistic kids could become familiar with small animals in the home (but not to handle). The store assistant told me that they were both Males from the same litter and that they would never 'knowingly' sell a customer mixed sexes. Anyway, after reading advice from this forum, I got around to sexing the hammies about 2 weeks later, after giving them time to settle in to their new surroundings. (I had them both in a large P@H cage). Following the sexing guide I discovered that they were actually both Females. From originally naming them 'Max and Paddy', I now had 'Maxine and Patrice'. We opted to stick with the original names.
After a few more weeks I started to notice that Max was about half the size of Paddy and hence I'm assuming Max was the runt of their litter. I'm not totally up to speed with the colourings of the Russian Hamsters, but Paddy is fawn/grey with a stripe down her back with a white underbelly and thick crescent shaped borderlines down her flanks, which if I'm right is consistent with a Winter White coat? Paddy on the other hand is Black, with a white bib and belly.
They slept together in a little house in the cage, but after a while I started to witness Paddy attacking Max. Max would squeak loudly and run away from Paddy and hide. Paddy would often give chase. Consequently they began sleeping apart. So I separated them in to a new bin cage each, where they have both been happy hammies.
I was told I they were ten weeks old when I got them, so they should be about 22 weeks (5+ months) old now. It's clear that Paddy is a female as her genitalia are easy to spot and indentify her as female, but last night I had another look at Max and now I'm confused. The hole which should be her vagina seems a little further from her anus than before and I can't locate nipples along her belly. So now I'm starting to wonder if Max is actually a Male and that Paddy was fighting with her/him because she didn't want to mate due to the size difference. I guess that they are both Hybrids because they come from the store with no breeders certificates, but is it likely that a female will reject a male if he is the runt of the litter.
I should point out that Max is only 37g whilst Paddy is 53g and could be getting bigger. Max will run for hours on the saucer whilst Paddy is less active. Max is more wedge shaped, whilst Paddy is the Potato shape.
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Old 06-27-2017, 12:21 AM   #2
souffle
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Default Re: Confused about Max's sex

Hamsters can be very tricky to sex at the age where they reach the pet store.
The size difference you noted was most likely due to one bullying the other and the stress and the fact the larger one would be guarding the food is most likely the reason for for the size difference. It also depends on how much of each species is in the hybrid. Campbells tend to be smaller and the black one will have more campbell traits. It is extremely common for them to fight at the age of maturity. It is more likely with a same sex pair however if they were mixed sex the extreme difference in 'type' may have resulted in rejection. By now the male should have signs of testicles really so it does sound as if they may be same sex. It is possible that one was pregnant and pregnant females also often reject the male. More than likely the litter was resorbed due to the fighting.
They sound like a cute pair anyway so we would love to see pics. Welcome to the forum.
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Old 06-27-2017, 12:33 PM   #3
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Default Re: Confused about Max's sex

Welcome. Well done for separating them. They will settle fine to living on their own. The smaller one may grow to be a similar size as the other one. As it is possibley being bullied and not getting much of the food.
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Old 06-27-2017, 04:58 PM   #4
Mooboo
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Default Re: Confused about Max's sex

Quote:
Originally Posted by souffle View Post
Hamsters can be very tricky to sex at the age where they reach the pet store.
The size difference you noted was most likely due to one bullying the other and the stress and the fact the larger one would be guarding the food is most likely the reason for for the size difference. It also depends on how much of each species is in the hybrid. Campbells tend to be smaller and the black one will have more campbell traits. It is extremely common for them to fight at the age of maturity. It is more likely with a same sex pair however if they were mixed sex the extreme difference in 'type' may have resulted in rejection. By now the male should have signs of testicles really so it does sound as if they may be same sex. It is possible that one was pregnant and pregnant females also often reject the male. More than likely the litter was resorbed due to the fighting.
They sound like a cute pair anyway so we would love to see pics. Welcome to the forum.
Thanks for the info Souffle. Yeah I couldn't see any testicles forming on Max either, so I'm just going to go with the her being female. They've both been in their own 64 litre bins for almost 4 weeks now and seem to be happy being separated. Although since I've separated them, Max has barely grown that much and her weight has actually dropped by 1gram. However it doesn't really seem to be affecting her at all. As I said before, Paddy is less mobile and definitely loves her food and stashing it in little hides.
I'll get some photos up shortly. They seemed to be in their nests asleep everytime I went in to see them, Lol.

Incidentally, I have contemplated breeding them if I could find good homes for them. Naturally I'd want commitments from prospective new owners before I'd do that. However whilst I think Paddy would be ok to breed, would Max be a bad choice to breed on the basis of her size? A male Dwarf Hamster would probably smother her during the act of coitus. Poor thing.
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Old 06-28-2017, 12:54 PM   #5
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Default Re: Confused about Max's sex

Guys, how do I post pics from an IPhone on to the forum? Thanks
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Old 06-28-2017, 01:54 PM   #6
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Default Re: Confused about Max's sex

Breeding any animals(including hamsters)with unknown genetics is never a good idea There are so many potential disasters when it comes to that sort of thing,for example serious genetic defects.This is especially true of pet store hamsters,which in this case not only are hybrids but could be related closely enough to cause other problems.
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Old 06-28-2017, 03:26 PM   #7
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Default Re: Confused about Max's sex

I personally wouldn't ever breed hamsters of unknown genetic background. Breeding is a huge commitment, it takes quite a lot of money, time, and knowledge to do ethically and correctly. It takes months, even years of research and hard work to start up, and even when all things are done right, it can end poorly As mentioned above, they'll also be hybrids which should never be bred due to health issues that can occur. It's also difficult to find homes, and though I don't mean this in a rude manner- but if you couldn't sex max properly, you may find it very difficult to sex the pups. This in turn, can lead to siblings breeding and then several new litters. Things can get out of hand quickly with rodent reproduction if you don't know what you're doing. If you're very interested in breeding, I'd suggest first owning several hamsters and then researching for a long time before considering getting into it Best wishes
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