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Old 06-19-2020, 12:13 AM   #1
gtyatt5
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Default Some housing questions...

Hi. I've posted some questions in the behavioral section, where experts have recommended that we increase floor space, while vertical separate level floor space (connected via tubes) wasn't that useful.


So I just had a few more housing questions to get a clearer grasp of things.

1. Is a tote connected to another tote by a 90 degree horizontal tube considered continuous floor space or not? (So both totes would be on the floor connected by a tube straight across from each other.) (*tote is the plastic tote or some call it a plastic bin.)

2. What is considered "ample" floor space for dwarfs? Admittingly, we studied a lot about Syrians before we got the Syrian, then just sort of thought the dwarf being smaller, we could get by with a proportionately sized cage...apparently not.

In Korea at least...I'm finding big-box store cages are similar to US big-box store (PetSmart etc) cages...they're tiny. Glass aquariums...there are quite large ones around...but they're too heavy even without anything in them. I can only do with cages I can physically manage on my own.

The only non-DIY product that might make sense is the Exo-Terra 90cm*45*90 reptile cage, which would be about twice the floor space of our current tote (52cm*40*30 - l*w*h). But it costs about $450 in Korea. The tote and all the DIY stuff cost about $40 with my labor. I can afford the $450, but loathe having to spend that much for a cage.

3. So, would anyone have ideas for a DIY-cage? Sifting through the internet, this forum and that, the verdict for the IKEA Detolf seems iffy at best. Some say it's not sturdy enough and the glass could break with a certain amount of substrate added. Others say too much substrate will allow the dwarfy to jump out...which would get him killed in our electronics-savvy home with cords everywhere.

Any advice, feedback or comments are most welcome as always.
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Old 06-19-2020, 12:35 AM   #2
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Default Re: Some housing questions...

Anything connected by tubes, no matter the angle, is not continuous floor space unfortunately. Floor space is going to have different opinions, but I would aim for a half square meter or roughly 775 square inches - in other words the equivalent of a 100 cm x 50 cm cage.

I really wouldn't recommend glass enclosures in your situation as they would be quite heavy and difficult to move around especially once filled with substrate and such. I would certainly also avoid the Exo Terra enclosure at that price point as well since that is extremely overpriced. The Ikea Detolf has similar issues, along with the ones you've mentioned, but it can be a safe and more than adequate dwarf hamster cage if set up properly. All hamster cages must be completely secure though which does include a proper secure lid which would eliminate the risk of an escaped hamster!
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Old 06-19-2020, 01:09 AM   #3
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Default Re: Some housing questions...

I agree that connected areas don't really provide adequate floor space, you do really need to have it all in one.
Most of my dwarf hams have been happy in a cage around 80x50cm although a few have wanted more space that will satisfy the needs of most.
If you can't find a large enough bin to mesh for a cage then the detolf is probably a good option, I've never used one personally but a lot of people do & they seem to work well.
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Old 06-19-2020, 06:13 AM   #4
gtyatt5
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Default Re: Some housing questions...

Everything seems small in Korea. It's unfortunate that we gave and threw away all our super large totes bought easily at a Target or Walmart, when we moved back to Korea. The largest I could find here is the IKEA Samla which comes in at 130L with dimensions of 78cm*56*43 (l*w*h). But given the way it gets smaller at the bottom, I found elsewhere on someone else's blog the floor space for the 130L Samla to be roughly 68cm*47cm (l*w). Which probably gets slightly larger if 15cm of substrate is added.

But even then, it's not really that much larger than what we have (52cm*41*30). The half square meter or even the 80*50 seems unattainable in Korea. At least as far as totes go.

So I wonder if two 130L Samla totes connected via tubes would suffice?

What I can't get, I can't get. And to custom order a hamster cage made of acrylic or wood at the half square meter size goes for $200~$300 range excluding shipping costs. I did find a rabbit cage at that size (90cm*61*72) that is listed at about $90 (see attached photo). I could probably use finer wire mesh to cover the entire cage...but how to avoid substrate seepage?

I looked further at options from other countries...but given the size and volume of an enclosure, the shipping cost comes in at the $100~$200 range. And IKEA Detolf...all the detractors have sort of got me sold. They're saying getting a good cover on top isn't as easy as all those DIY YouTube vids and even then isn't escape-proof. (Honestly, I'm more worried about my wife seeing a on-the-loose hammy than the hammy killing itself biting cords. If such comes to pass, I'd probably be served divorce papers. No joke!)
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Last edited by gtyatt5; 06-19-2020 at 06:19 AM.
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Old 06-19-2020, 06:27 AM   #5
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Default Re: Some housing questions...

My own opinion is that cage is far too high, you would have to put levels in it to make it hamster safe. Therefore if that or 2 samla bins together is your only options I would go with the 2 samla bins connected. Would be safer for the hamster, if not ideal (as broken floor space).
Is another option if you could find a cage that is not as high?
if you did find another cage more suitable height wise you can add cardboard, or grass mats to the side so you can add more substrate.
I have a video on how I do it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doZJJHCW1fs&t=17s
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Old 06-19-2020, 07:27 AM   #6
gtyatt5
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Default Re: Some housing questions...

Just saw your vid Luna. I see that the hammies running around are Syrians. So does that mean dwarfs need the same amount of space as Syrians do?

And by cage being too high...does that mean a hamster could climb the cage to the top and cling there for awhile before falling down? I'm not sure I'm following you on why cage height is an issue.

And just out of curiousity. Great enclosure you have there! But how in the world do you manage with the cleaning? As a beginner/novice, every info I gathered suggested a weekly clean...to which I'm already slacking 6 weeks in by doing a deep clean every 10 days.

If the hammy was potty trained and relatively neat, I think I could get away without a deep clean for 2~3 weeks (our Syrian pees only in litter sand and poops only in her nest or inside the darkness of a cardboard box...and no where else!! She has spoiled us silly!!). But what if the hammy pees wherever he likes, also at the places that are the least accessible by us?

I'm just wishing cleaning could be less frequent and was a less daunting task.
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Old 06-19-2020, 07:44 AM   #7
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Default Re: Some housing questions...

Dwarf hamsters do need a lot of space even if the dwarf species are smaller than Syrians. When it comes to cage height, it's a serious issue because hamsters are really bad at climbing and have extremely poor eyesight so any tall cage or tall objects in a cage pose a very real safety risk which can lead to serious injury or even death.

Cage cleaning really should never be done weekly, maybe tiny bits of spot cleaning if that. Major cleans should not be done unless a hamster has a genuine medical condition requiring a thorough disinfection of the entire cage, but very small partial cleanings can be done every 3-6 months. The advice of weekly full cage cleanings is both outdated and extremely inaccurate as well as harmful to hamsters' health and happiness!
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Old 06-19-2020, 08:08 AM   #8
gtyatt5
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Default Re: Some housing questions...

Little fella...needy fella...wants a lot of space...high maintenance...got it!

Height risk...got that too. Though if that's the case, it seems a tote, bin, aquarium, acrylic, wood or whatever might be better than a true cage to thwart climbing at all, no?

Hurray!! To no deep clean. But what does that mean? Our deep clean is just clearing out all the bedding (a mix of aspen shaving, Carefresh Ultra and JRS 3-4 shaving) and the diaper pad (I think it was designed for dogs) at the bottom, and whatever else there is. The nest area we only spot clean for poop and leave most of the food hoard and about 1/4~1/2 of the bedding as is. The sand box is half thrown out and then half newly filled. The food and water are daily things.

We do rearrange the furniture to keep things interesting. And always add DIY cardboard box, tunnel, toys etc. Our Syrian loves to obliterate anything cardboard to the point boxes are collapsed and tunnels are bared wide open. So we replenish her with new structures. We're still figuring out what the dwarfy likes and wants though.

I'm worried, in that it's a "Hurray!!" for not having to deep clean the Syrian's home. But a dwarfy that pees wherever...is the pee smell tolerable? Unfortunately, I'm not going to avoid a deep clean for the hammy's sake, when my sake is in the way.
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Old 06-19-2020, 08:38 AM   #9
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Default Re: Some housing questions...

Just a little note - take the pee pad out. They contain a gel and fibre stuff in them and this would be fatal if he were to eat that.
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Old 06-19-2020, 10:31 AM   #10
gtyatt5
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Default Re: Some housing questions...

Okay. Got it. Didn't think all the way to fatal...Our Syrian tore at it with so much vigor (we think she didn't like it) we took it out of her enclosure. But the dwarfy still has it...I guess soon he won't.

It was a whole lot easier to clean the bedding as I could just take the diaper pad and roll it up to trash. But since everyone is suggesting deep cleans should be avoided...no worries?

BTW, most breeder shops in Korea have these diaper pads as a component of a hamster care-kit package (which happens to be the most popular package and the same package we got). So are these folk just big-box store evil capitalists as well? (FYI, I have nothing on capitalists, since I'm one too...^^)
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floor, tote, space, cage, cages, questions, connected, $450, plastic, substrate, korea, big-box, glass, considered, store, housing, tube, afford, loathe, labor, $40, cost, stuff, diy-cage, sifting

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