Hardened Soft wood?

[Geo92]

Kinda confusing about this subject, as there's so much mix signals on this subject... I have the salvic plaza cage, as most of you probably know it's massive.. I simply cannot afford to fill this up with bedding every single week, with stuff like carefresh as it's expensive..

so was looking for some cheaper way to do this, so I went on zooplus and bought x2

https://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/small...all_pet/228481

the reviews are good and I jumped on it, and it states Hardened so I assumed that was safe, I am in UK and hear so much conflicting statements on this.. "It's safe kiln dried" some say "It's still not safe" I am not expecting a %100 answer but what should I do? should I refuse the delivery of the package and get something else, or just use the bags and ill be fine?

honestly heard people use them and no one has an .. except alot of hamster owners not in EU or Germany, mostly the states. .. condemn you if you use it.. and you're a horrible owner.

I do have x2 carefesh 14L , but this won't fill the plaza savic at all! and if I have to buy this bedding weekly or whatever, it's not very cost effective so it's why I was trying to buy something cheap and in BULK but I obvious want something safe. already spent the money, and paid for shipping couple days ago, what should I do?

I do plan use the shavings mixed with a little carefresh anyway/

[sushi_78]

It's likely you are cleaning more than you need to. Once a week is usually too often to do a full cage clean. You can pick out wet areas of bedding and droppings you can see every couple of days and leave the major clean until the cage actually starts to smell or look dirty. Even then, you should always leave some bedding behind and I know some people only ever replace half the bedding at each clean. I have had a Robo kept on wood shavings since last October and I have only done one major clean since then. The bedding just doesn't smell at all, and she goes to the toilet in her sand, which I change more often. Other hamsters may need cleaning much more often, especially Syrians which pee a lot, but you can work out what's right for you.

As for the wood shavings, you're going to find different opinions. Personally I use Pets at Home wood shavings, which are similar to the Chipsi shavings you linked without any issues, as do many others. Many prefer to avoid pine due to concerns over the effects of the phenols, but it's a matter of personal choice really. I certainly wouldn't consider anyone a horrible owner for any pet care decision they made, as long as was an informed decision made in the best interest of the pet. I have heard some suggestions that the pine found in the UK and Europe is in some way different to that found in the US (aside from the kiln-drying which is required in Europe), but I don't know any more details about that.

If you aren't sure about the Chipsi, other options include hemp and aspen shavings. Hemp has a lovely sweet smell and doesn't get smelly quickly - I highly recommend it. I didn't get on well with aspen - I found it dusty and not very absorbent, but some brands may be better than others. Depending on which country you are in you may be able to find spruce or birch shavings which are safe.

[LunaTheHamster1]

Hi, I have the Savic Plaza Cage too and in my opinion carefresh is expensive and doesn't go far at all. You should find if you fill your cage up as much as possible, you will only need to spot clean and I remove about 1/4 to a 1/3 of the bedding from the messy toilet area end maybe every 6 weeks or so, move all the rest of the bedding down and add a new pile. so once you filled your cage up once, you shouldn't need to do it as much.

I use megazorb and auboise, comes in massive bags and lasts a while. Some people don't like the smell but I don't mind it. I do know people use Chipsi, but I never have.

I'm not sure what you should do, like you said people have conflicting opinions on this, I guess it's up to you whether you want to use the chipsi this time around and look for something else next time. You could look at it as if you are using it once your hamster is not going to come to much harm (others may disagree with me). i think it is more if you use it long term that health issues can arise. .

[Geo92]

Hi, Yes I know about the pine being different in the UK, but most people don't get that and still tell you off about it when I know it's fine, sorry for the delay, I only just got an email about this.

I also don't clean weekly, I know the bigger the cage the less you do it, spot clean every couple days is fine but also. full clean every month, I know that (: but thanks anyway.

also I did order 20kg bag from pets at home, (coming tomorrow) but I've found out my local pet store does sawdust 20kg alot cheaper than pets at home so once finished ill be going there.


the main thing is our pine tree's etc over here, are not as bad as the ones in the USA, and I know hamster owners in the UK who use bedding like that for daily and have for years without issue. it's just got a bad name because of how it is in the US, by law it has to be klin treated over here. i've heard some people say they don't have megazorb smell either.

[sushi_78]

Originally Posted by Geo92

Hi, Yes I know about the pine being different in the UK, but most people don't get that and still tell you off about it when I know it's fine, sorry for the delay, I only just got an email about this.

I also don't clean weekly, I know the bigger the cage the less you do it, spot clean every couple days is fine but also. full clean every month, I know that (: but thanks anyway.

also I did order 20kg bag from pets at home, (coming tomorrow) but I've found out my local pet store does sawdust 20kg alot cheaper than pets at home so once finished ill be going there.


the main thing is our pine tree's etc over here, are not as bad as the ones in the USA, and I know hamster owners in the UK who use bedding like that for daily and have for years without issue. it's just got a bad name because of how it is in the US, by law it has to be klin treated over here. i've heard some people say they don't have megazorb smell either.

No matter what you do for your hamster, you'll find someone somewhere will think it's not good enough, so I wouldn't let that bother you too much. It's the reason I only share pictures of my hamster's cage here as this is the least judgmental hamster group I've found.

I find wood shavings can vary a lot in quality between brands. I've bought some that are really dusty and I wasn't happy using them. I've found Pets at Home wood shavings to be good. Snowflake is another brand that many people like though I haven't tried that one yet

Pine shavings do have a smell, but I find it goes away after a week or so in the cage. You can leave the shavings to air for a few days if it's very strong.

[AmityvilleHams]

For me it comes down to the simple fact that you physically cannot remove all the phenols(even if wood could be dried to 0% moisture, which it cannot, it would still inevitably become rehydrated to some degree which would bring the phenols back to some level - they don't just disappear). That would be misleading and an outright lie which I personally will never support.

As sushi_78 has mentioned Snowflake wood shavings, it is not well known if at all but something we need to be quite concerned with is that Snowflake use pine, spruce, and cedar - not just pine and/or spruce. I know that you'll see so many good reviews here but it's not worth the risk knowing that Snowflake does use cedar. Because Snowflake uses cedar that automatically rules them out as a safe choice as we know cedar is not remotely safe for hamsters!

The absolute safest substrates are virgin fiber undyed paper or a high quality hemp. Neither tend to trigger any allergic reaction, both are completely non toxic, and obviously neither contain the harmful phenols that, yes, even kiln dried wood can contain(species dependent - but even aspen for example can trigger allergic reactions). Hemp happens to be widely available in the UK and typically at extremely reasonable prices, and it just so happens to be one of if not the most environmentally friendly substrate choices you could ever get!

At the end of the day, I don't bash or try to shame people for using wood shavings or call them a bad owner etc. That doesn't do anything positive and only serves to hurt the hamster community as a whole, but I do put out the proper information whenever possible.

[sushi_78]

Originally Posted by AmityvilleHams

As sushi_78 has mentioned Snowflake wood shavings, it is not well known if at all but something we need to be quite concerned with is that Snowflake use pine, spruce, and cedar - not just pine and/or spruce. I know that you'll see so many good reviews here but it's not worth the risk knowing that Snowflake does use cedar. Because Snowflake uses cedar that automatically rules them out as a safe choice as we know cedar is not remotely safe for hamsters!

I wasn't aware of that about Snowflake - I certainly won't be using that one then. Thanks for pointing that out.

[Pebbles82]

I think the key is to buy substrate in bulk so it’s cheaper and also don’t do full cage cleans The more substrate you have in, the less you need to do a cafe clean- especially if you use a litter tray and just empty that every few days.

Because there are so many inexpensive options to wood shavings now, most people buy paper or hemp bedding in bulk - or something like Megazorb. I’ve been using Fitch for years and it works out inexpensive, safe, non allergenic and hamsters really like it as it’s quite soft - and add it to their nests as well as using toilet paper strips for nesting.

Fitch is recycled food grade paper and sold in bulk by mail order. I get the 10kg bag which costs about £20. That lasts me about 4 to 6 months with two 100 Cm cages, spot cleaning and litter trays. I only actually need to change the substrate about every 3 months!

20kg works out even more economical but it’s a really big bag and needs to be kept indoors so depends if you have the space. The 10 kg bag is about the size of a small child’s beanbag chair and can be squished into various shapes to fit under something fir storage eg.

To fill a cage like the Savic plaza from scratch, uses about a third of one of those 10kg bags. So it does work out economical. It was one of the most popular substrates on here for a while but now Kaytee clean and cozy is available in the Uk that has become more popular - very similar but maybe very slightly softer- but costs more for the amount. I’m sticking with Fitch

Zooplus also sells Hugro hemp bedding in bulk - I can’t use that as I was allergic. But there are a lot of economical options without using wood shavings.

The Chipsi wood shavings are better than most as they are part pine and part spruce as well as being kiln dried. Spruce is equivalent to hardwood in terms of negligible phenols - but it doesn’t say what percentage is pine and what percentage is spruce. They are probably safe to use but there are better alternatives.

If you google Fitch pet bedding you’ll find their website. 10kg bag under small animal section. It’s much better than Carefredh as it has no dust.

[Pebbles82]

Just to add that the main benefit of doing big clean outs less often is for the hamster, not just to save us money. It removes all their familiar scent and stresses them when all the substrate is changed. For that reason many people do partial cleans- so even when you change all the substrate, keep about a quarter of the old substrate back that is clean (maybe the bottom part) and spread it on top of the new do it still smells familiar. That layer will gradually get spot cleaned out anyway probably. Also don’t clean everything at the same time - that is our human instinct but it’s better for the hamsters to still feel at home and always have something smelling familiar. So if you do the substrate, leave the wheel till another week and any toys etc till another week again.

Hamsters are really quite clean little things, wash regularly. The only thing that is not clean is their pee. Most of the will pee in one spot and use a litter tray so you then just empty the litter tray every few days. The corner ones work well. It does mean buying chinchilla bathing sand to put in the litter tray but I got a big bag from Zooplus that will probably last me over a year with two hamsters!

[Pebbles82]

This bag. It’s good value and good sand.

https://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/small...ter/sand/42425