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Old 03-05-2020, 06:02 PM   #11
Geo92
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Default Re: Hardened Soft wood?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmityvilleHams View Post
For me it comes down to the simple fact that you physically cannot remove all the phenols(even if wood could be dried to 0% moisture, which it cannot, it would still inevitably become rehydrated to some degree which would bring the phenols back to some level - they don't just disappear). That would be misleading and an outright lie which I personally will never support.

As sushi_78 has mentioned Snowflake wood shavings, it is not well known if at all but something we need to be quite concerned with is that Snowflake use pine, spruce, and cedar - not just pine and/or spruce. I know that you'll see so many good reviews here but it's not worth the risk knowing that Snowflake does use cedar. Because Snowflake uses cedar that automatically rules them out as a safe choice as we know cedar is not remotely safe for hamsters!

The absolute safest substrates are virgin fiber undyed paper or a high quality hemp. Neither tend to trigger any allergic reaction, both are completely non toxic, and obviously neither contain the harmful phenols that, yes, even kiln dried wood can contain(species dependent - but even aspen for example can trigger allergic reactions). Hemp happens to be widely available in the UK and typically at extremely reasonable prices, and it just so happens to be one of if not the most environmentally friendly substrate choices you could ever get!

At the end of the day, I don't bash or try to shame people for using wood shavings or call them a bad owner etc. That doesn't do anything positive and only serves to hurt the hamster community as a whole, but I do put out the proper information whenever possible.

all I know is.. I know people who have used the stuff over here in the UK even pets at home brand, and this person has many hamsters, she rescues them, like using gum tree, even travelling 2 hours out of her away just to collect them... and saving them from pet stores, and trying to rehome them, she has many cages, many hamsters, and uses saw dust from pets at home etc, on them all, and not once has she had any issue with her hamsters over the years.

not saying you're wrong, but I feel like the levels that do come out of it, and so small it doesn't even matter. I think that is what people are missing. also that our tree's are not as bad as the ones in the USA, that is also why so many people over here never report issues.
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Old 03-05-2020, 06:03 PM   #12
Geo92
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Default Re: Hardened Soft wood?

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Originally Posted by Serendipity7000 View Post
Just to add that the main benefit of doing big clean outs less often is for the hamster, not just to save us money. It removes all their familiar scent and stresses them when all the substrate is changed. For that reason many people do partial cleans- so even when you change all the substrate, keep about a quarter of the old substrate back that is clean (maybe the bottom part) and spread it on top of the new do it still smells familiar. That layer will gradually get spot cleaned out anyway probably. Also don’t clean everything at the same time - that is our human instinct but it’s better for the hamsters to still feel at home and always have something smelling familiar. So if you do the substrate, leave the wheel till another week and any toys etc till another week again.

Hamsters are really quite clean little things, wash regularly. The only thing that is not clean is their pee. Most of the will pee in one spot and use a litter tray so you then just empty the litter tray every few days. The corner ones work well. It does mean buying chinchilla bathing sand to put in the litter tray but I got a big bag from Zooplus that will probably last me over a year with two hamsters!

don't worry I already know about the scent stuff, and keeping some back to keep a familiar scent don't worry., not used bathing sand yet, I did hear not all will use it, but I do tend to least give it a try though.
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Old 03-05-2020, 06:50 PM   #13
Pebbles82
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Default Re: Hardened Soft wood?

I would give Fitch a try If you like Carefresh it's very similar. As someone mentioned earlier, it isn't just the phenols in softwood. Hamsters can actually be allergic to any type of wood. And there have been cases of allergy. It's also about the amount of dust in a bedding and Fitch and Kaytee Clean and Cozy are dust free. Hamsters have very sensitive respiratory tracts.

Generally kiln dried pine shavings in the Uk are considered to be ok, but most people prefer to use something else. Cedar is never ok.
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Old 03-05-2020, 07:06 PM   #14
Geo92
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Default Re: Hardened Soft wood?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serendipity7000 View Post
I would give Fitch a try If you like Carefresh it's very similar. As someone mentioned earlier, it isn't just the phenols in softwood. Hamsters can actually be allergic to any type of wood. And there have been cases of allergy. It's also about the amount of dust in a bedding and Fitch and Kaytee Clean and Cozy are dust free. Hamsters have very sensitive respiratory tracts.

Generally kiln dried pine shavings in the Uk are considered to be ok, but most people prefer to use something else. Cedar is never ok.

I already have the pets at home woodshavings... and the woodshavings I am using I have no issue with dust. etc,


I thank you for helping and that but paper bedding over here costs alot.. it's why I am using woodshavings, and for in hides yeah I use paper bedding, but that's about it.

I know people who use and and never have an issue, so ill stick with it for the time being... of course if any bad reactions occurred, yeah sure something will be done tbh pets at home doesn't state what soft woods it is, just that it's dust extracted.. Pretty sure I've read its pine though.

Last edited by Geo92; 03-05-2020 at 07:54 PM.
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Old 03-06-2020, 07:47 AM   #15
Pebbles82
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Default Re: Hardened Soft wood?

Where abouts are you? You said over here so wondered if you were not Uk mainland or something.
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Old 03-06-2020, 07:51 AM   #16
Pebbles82
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Default Re: Hardened Soft wood?

Rule of thumb is if it doesn't say on the packet what wood it is then don't use it. Also needs to say dust extracted on the packet. The Chipsi would be a better bet.

Not sure if you read my post about Fitch paper bedding but it works out cheap. For £22 it would last about 6 months with the Savic plaza. Delivery is free and takes 2 to 3 days.

https://www.fitchfirst.co.uk/fitch-p...-delivery.html
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Old 03-06-2020, 10:56 AM   #17
Geo92
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Default Re: Hardened Soft wood?

though my bottle that came with the salvic plaza, drips a little and it's full,.
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Old 03-06-2020, 11:02 AM   #18
AmityvilleHams
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Default Re: Hardened Soft wood?

A dripping bottle is a very annoying issue! I'd give a Classic brand plastic bottle a shot, probably the mouse size one. Others might be able to give even better UK specific bottle recommendations but I know the Classic plastic ones are very popular and apparently fairly reliable. You could also try putting some sort of glass or ceramic bowl or saucer underneath to help contain the dripping.
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Old 03-06-2020, 12:23 PM   #19
LunaTheHamster1
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Default Re: Hardened Soft wood?

I have used classic bottles, cheap and reliable in my experience.
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Old 03-06-2020, 12:24 PM   #20
sushi_78
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Default Re: Hardened Soft wood?

The Classic / Crystal Deluxe brand bottles are great. I've had dozens of them and never had one leak or drip or stop working. I get the smallest ones from Viovet for 90p each.

Every other kind of bottle I have tried has leaked or only worked intermittently. I had a Savic bottle that came with a cage (not sure if it's the same type as yours as it didn't come with a Plaza) that would empty in 10 minutes, as it just couldn't hold water.
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