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Old 04-16-2019, 03:52 AM   #1
BethandLil
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Default DIY cage in progress - MISTAKES

Hi my HC friends!
Long time, no see!!


Wonder has always been in a Savic Hamster Heaven cage. She has progressively developed a bar chewing habit. I tried all the obvious remedies (cage rearrange/add more toys/chews/attach chews/pegs to the bars, etc)

We have had to move her out of the bedroom because it's just too loud at night.
I don't want to keep her out of the bedroom long term so I planned on making her a new cage!



I saw Vanillahamham's linnmon build and went to ikea to investigate.
I didn't really like how chunky the linnmon boards were but I did pick up a glass shelve (roughly 80cm x 35cm) from the bargain area.

I planned to make something similar but out of re purposed chipboard.

I primed them with a generic dulux primer we had and then I used rustoleum painters touch paint (like this - https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/Rust-Oleum-...9985901&chn=ps ) on the sides and rustoleum painter's touch enamel (like this - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rust-Oleum-...c=1&th=1&psc=1 ) on the base in an attempt to waterproof it.

Both paints are toy safe and I do believe i've read that they are safe to use on this forum (please correct me if I am wrong)


So that's where i've gotten to -

1 x base (chipboard with thin plywood mounted ontop) with painters touch enamel applied
2 x sides and 1 x backboard with primer and painters touch paint applied

I now feel like i've made some pretty big errors and would love some advice on how I might be able to salvage this project.

I now believe chipboard may not be suitable. very chewable? possibly toxic?

and the primer I used may pose a risk to wonder's health also?

and are the two painter's touch products I used above even safe??


should I start again? or just give in and buy a cage?
or is it possible to sufficiently hamproof what I have already made?

Expenses have already totted up so perhaps I should cut my losses.



Hope this all makes sense. I think i'm rambling a little.
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Old 04-16-2019, 04:28 AM   #2
Shannonmcn
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Default Re: DIY cage in progress - MISTAKES

I was looking into Rustoleum myself recently and found some posts on a bird forum. Someone had contacted the company directly and they said the brush on Toy Safe enamel product was safe for bird cages which I think is as good as you're going to get. Generally Toy-Safe is the top level of non-toxic that's going to be printed on the packaging. The go-to Plastikote has the same designation so I decided I was happy enough to use the Rustoleum clear wood seal (I can't get Plastikote shipped on Amazon to me) but other people may not have taken the risk. It's how far you trust that toy safe is also hamster safe. If the Dulux isn't hamster safe then I wouldn't use it personally, even if it is covered.

As for the chip board, I don't know how chew proof that would be. And I would also be worried about the toxicity of the glue. Although the melamine boards are also partially chipboard and partially cardboard and I don't really think melamine is a great thing to be chewing on, they are used a lot and so there's a certain anecdotal "these are fine" consensus that the chipboard just doesn't seem to have? I probably wouldn't use it myself but it's possible I'm being too cautious.

First thing I would do is to test the waterproofing of the chipboard and the paint job and maybe see how easily the surface is chipped or damaged on a bit of scrap. Take a screwdriver to it. First things first - is this combo going to do what you want it to do.
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Old 04-16-2019, 04:46 AM   #3
BethandLil
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Default Re: DIY cage in progress - MISTAKES

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shannonmcn View Post
I was looking into Rustoleum myself recently and found some posts on a bird forum. Someone had contacted the company directly and they said the brush on Toy Safe enamel product was safe for bird cages which I think is as good as you're going to get. Generally Toy-Safe is the top level of non-toxic that's going to be printed on the packaging. The go-to Plastikote has the same designation so I decided I was happy enough to use the Rustoleum clear wood seal (I can't get Plastikote shipped on Amazon to me) but other people may not have taken the risk. It's how far you trust that toy safe is also hamster safe. If the Dulux isn't hamster safe then I wouldn't use it personally, even if it is covered.
That is reassuring to hear about my Rustoleum choices.
I deeply regret using the primer.
I suppose I thought if it was covered by the pet safe stuff, that would seal in any toxins. But I wasn't thinking about the hazzards if it is chewed..

I could sand it back and reapply just the rustoleum paint but that would probably be a pointless exercise if the chipboard is considered toxic/not fit for use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shannonmcn View Post
As for the chip board, I don't know how chew proof that would be. And I would also be worried about the toxicity of the glue. Although the melamine boards are also partially chipboard and partially cardboard and I don't really think melamine is a great thing to be chewing on, they are used a lot and so there's a certain anecdotal "these are fine" consensus that the chipboard just doesn't seem to have? I probably wouldn't use it myself but it's possible I'm being too cautious.
Yes, this is my worry now too.

The base is comprised of 2 x chipboard panels topped with a plywood sheet.
This was to avoid having an exposed joint in the middle of the base.

I wonder if plywood is considered any safer than chipboard?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shannonmcn View Post
First thing I would do is to test the waterproofing of the chipboard and the paint job and maybe see how easily the surface is chipped or damaged on a bit of scrap. Take a screwdriver to it. First things first - is this combo going to do what you want it to do.
Thanks Shannon! That sounds like good advice. I will go and check it.
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Old 04-16-2019, 04:51 AM   #4
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Default Re: DIY cage in progress - MISTAKES

I think if it was me I would be concerned about the combination of all of those products "off-gassing" - more noticeable to a hamster than us. The reason people use melamine board is because melamine is solid and inert. It may have chipboard between the layers of melamine but that is sealed between the melamine surfaces - except the edges which is just a small amount, although some have sealed edges as well.

Personally I would keep the chipboard for another project and use melamine board xxx

How about a detolf ?
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Old 04-16-2019, 04:54 AM   #5
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Default Re: DIY cage in progress - MISTAKES

Plywood can also off-gas formaledhyde from the glue. Unless it's described as non toxic plywood. It may be ok for a small piece for a shelf eg but not for a whole cage.

Melamine is also easily wipe clean without needing waterproofing paint.

Even if you don't get the Linmon table tops, you can buy whole sheets of melamine board in diy stores and they will cut them to the size you want.

Apart from the off-gassing of the paint and chipboard, it could also be chewed and contain a range of chemicals. That's just my two-pennyworth
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Old 04-16-2019, 04:58 AM   #6
BethandLil
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Default Re: DIY cage in progress - MISTAKES

I suppose my options are -
  • Continue on, dispite chipboard and primer concerns, and closely monitor Wonder's behaviour and health (I would keep her old cage on standby).
  • Purchase new wooden boards that are known to be ham safe to use for the DIY cage.
  • Cut my losses and buy a new cage, for example the Living World Green Eco Habitat.


I'm a bit stumped!
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Old 04-16-2019, 05:02 AM   #7
BethandLil
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Default Re: DIY cage in progress - MISTAKES

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serendipity7000 View Post
Plywood can also off-gas formaledhyde from the glue. Unless it's described as non toxic plywood. It may be ok for a small piece for a shelf eg but not for a whole cage.

Melamine is also easily wipe clean without needing waterproofing paint.

Even if you don't get the Linmon table tops, you can buy whole sheets of melamine board in diy stores and they will cut them to the size you want.

Apart from the off-gassing of the paint and chipboard, it could also be chewed and contain a range of chemicals. That's just my two-pennyworth
No, that's all really helpful Serendipity. Thanks for your help!

I was re purposing the chip and ply boards so i've no idea of there exact specifications but i'm quickly going off the idea of using any of it.

I will look into melamine boards.
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Old 04-16-2019, 05:43 AM   #8
BethandLil
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Default Re: DIY cage in progress - MISTAKES

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serendipity7000 View Post
How about a detolf ?
I'm not really a fan of the look of a diy detolf.
It also wouldn't fit in the preferred Wonder zone

Although I am a big fan of the fact you can see in from all angles. Perhaps I should reconsider..
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Old 04-16-2019, 06:01 AM   #9
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Default Re: DIY cage in progress - MISTAKES

I just upgraded from the detolf to a linnmon-cage, if you're willing and able to to the DIY I would just skip the detolf entirely

B&Q seem to do several bits of 600mm wide melamine board which is reasonably priced. Wish I had thought to look into that before I went with the Linnmons now! But even on the website we have a warning "Please note that this item has additional safety or regulatory datasheets available. The product may have possible health and safety hazards covered in these documents. Refer to the container for full information and always follow the instructions." but the datasheets are conveniently not uploaded. Who knows if that relates to glues or offgassing.
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Old 04-16-2019, 06:10 AM   #10
BethandLil
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Default Re: DIY cage in progress - MISTAKES

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shannonmcn View Post
I just upgraded from the detolf to a linnmon-cage, if you're willing and able to to the DIY I would just skip the detolf entirely

B&Q seem to do several bits of 600mm wide melamine board which is reasonably priced. Wish I had thought to look into that before I went with the Linnmons now! But even on the website we have a warning "Please note that this item has additional safety or regulatory datasheets available. The product may have possible health and safety hazards covered in these documents. Refer to the container for full information and always follow the instructions." but the datasheets are conveniently not uploaded. Who knows if that relates to glues or offgassing.
Aw thanks so much for checking!
Could you please give me a link so I know i'm looking at the same item?

What a shame they haven't provided more info.
Can anyone else shed any light on whether this Melamine would be suitable?

Thanks again!
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