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Old 03-29-2019, 03:24 PM   #1
bithead007
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Thumbs down 20 gal long tank 30x12x12 --> need topper

I'm not finding a topper that fits this aquarium I was given.

Bottom story would be the 20 gal long tank 30x12x12" aquarium and top story (or stories?) would be bars closer than 1cm (YingYang is a Syrian I have had for a whopping 4 hours now).

I have a suitable temp housing thing for him but would like to set up the final one ASAP so thank you for any clues on where to find a topper that would fit this.

Chris
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Old 03-30-2019, 08:52 AM   #2
Pebbles82
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Default Re: 20 gal long tank 30x12x12 --> need topper

Hi there. To be honest you don't need a topper, you need a bigger aquarium! It's the floor space that counts and with a topper it will probably make it so tall there would be fall risks - and it would be difficult to set up safely.

Most people find a 40 gallon breeder tank is about the right size for a Syrian - that is about 90 cm by 45cm. And then you need a lid. I think you can buy the lids to fit the tanks. Minimum size suitable for a Syrian hamster is about 80cm by 50cm continuous floor area - eg about 32 inches by 20 inches. Personally I think 90 to 100cm by 50cm is better as Syrians have bigger toys and wheels and tunnels etc so you can fit things in well and still have enough floor area. Plus they need a shelf/ramp ideally as well.

I believe it's Petco in the US do dollar per gallon sales so you can get a 40 gallon breeder tank for $40.

Alternatives would be a cage - this one is a good size and not too expensive. There are only 2 or 3 cages suitable for hamsters in the US and the others are much more expensive.

https://www.amazon.com/Prevue-Pet-Pr...gateway&sr=8-1

I actually prefer a cage - the ventilation is better, you can attach things to the roof and bars to enrich it, and you ahve a front opening door so it's better for interaction with the hamster.

Another alternative is making a bin cage but again it's hard to find bins big enough.

Instead of buying a topper, it would be better to put the money towards the Prevue cage and keep the tank as a play cage/taming area, or for when you're doing a clean out in the main cage.

Are you in the US? You definitely don't want anything smaller than that cage. It is also fairly tall so would need the base filling with substrate to prevent injuries from falling so they have a soft landing - and can dig and burrow etc.
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Old 03-30-2019, 09:15 AM   #3
Pebbles82
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Default Re: 20 gal long tank 30x12x12 --> need topper

Also - if and when you move him, this needs to be done carefully. Assuming his current cage is not teeny tiny, then it's best to leave him to settle into that for at least two weeks before moving him now. Coming home with you is a big change of environment and a stressful time for them. It taks a good two weeks for them to adjust, scent mark their cage. Too much stress in the early days can lead to illness.

So general advice is - leave them alone for the first couple of days and just put food and water out. After that, don't clean anythng or start making lots of changes in the cage for two weeks. You can just spot clean the pee area every few days. ie take out ahandful of wet substrate and put a handful of new in, then mix it in a bit so it smells familiar. Adding the odd new thing is ok, as long as it doesn't mean moving things around, but taking things out upsets them. So only do that if it's an urgent safety issue!

Best thing is to add a litter tray with Chinchilla bathing sand in it (must be sand not dust). You put that in the area they have chosen to pee with a tiny bit of the pee'd on substrate on top and they use it. Then you only need to empty the litter tray every few days and the rest of the cage stays clean.

So apart from the spot clean/litter tray don't clean anything for two weeks to give the hammy that adjustment time and to scent mark their way around the cage.

Even after that it is best not to overclean or do "full" cleans. And it doesn't need to be done weekly. ie don't clean everything all at the same time, or it removes all their familiar scent and they get very stressed and want to escape - and can start chewing their way out. They either feel in a strange place or feel they've been invaded.

So to avoid that, when you do finally do a substrate change (it can go 6 to 8 weeks with a litter tray and/or spot cleaning), don't clean anything else at the same time. So you can do the wheel a different week,and any toys as and when needed. Toys often don't need cleaning that often. Also save a bit of the clean old substrate and sprinkle it on top of the new so it smells familiar.

If they don't pee in the nest it is best to leave that alone - they are very precious about their nest and hoards. I have a house/nesting box with a lift off roof - so I can check inside and don't need to remove the house - so the nest doesn't fall apart.

If the nest or hoard is pee'd on then you need to remove it, but try and leave a bit of the old nest behind, that's dry so it smells familiar and hasn't completely gone. Then just put a big pile of strips of plain white toilet paper in the cage (but not inside the house) and the hammy will pouch some, take it to the house and rebuild the nest.

Same with the hoard. If it's not pee'd on, then leave it. Next time you do a substrate change, if it has got very large, you can "prune it" down a bit but add a bit of new food as well. If it's been pee'd on and has to be removed then always replace it with new food in exactly the same place. Otherwise they start having abnormal behaviours and will pee on everything to deter people from stealing it! Then it becomes a catch 22. So I show great respect for my hammy's nest and hoard - it's his bed! And his kitchen and they are very particular about it.

If they're dry they can go quite a long time. My hammy just keeps adding to his nest and chucking bits out and refurbishes it himself.

When cleaing the cage base, avoided strongly scented cleaning things. Unless there has been illness or disease, it doesn't need disinfecting - just warm soapy water will do and then rinsed well to remove any scent. Their sense of smell is much more powerful than ours and scents can affect their breathing.

Anyway - so give him 2 or 3 weeks to settle in to the current cage. Then when you move him over it's a good idea not to do it cold turkey. The day before, let him play in the new cage. Put new substrate in and a couple of toys (eg cardboard tube) and maybe one toy from his old cage. He may freak out and want to come out very quickly. If he does that, put him back in his old cage and then let him play in the new cage either later that evening again or next day. Second time he should be more interested in exploring.

Then the day after - put him somewhere safe and move everythig over. You can leave all the new substrate in the new cage, but also move all the old substrate over from the old cage and spread it on top - this helps settle them in quicker.

Also try and set it up so things are in the same layout as the old cage, or as close as possible/similar.

Resist the temptation to clean everything when moving things over - because it really helps them adjust to the new cage quicker if everything smells familiar. Even then the hammy will be a bit jittery for a few days and will need another two weeks to fully settle. But during that time you can still do the odd bit of out of cage taming if he wants to come out. Best to avoid trying to do it in the cage as they are quite territorial in the cage.

Anyway this is the kind of litter tray I use - works well in the corner of a cage which is where they tend to choose as a toilet. If you put it in their chosen place they will use it. But if you put it anywhere else they will ignore it!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hamster-cor...gateway&sr=8-6

This one looks similar

https://www.amazon.com/Ware-Manufact...gateway&sr=8-9
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Old 03-31-2019, 03:48 AM   #4
bithead007
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Default Re: 20 gal long tank 30x12x12 --> need topper

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serendipity7000 View Post
Most people find a 40 gallon breeder tank is about the right size for a Syrian - that is about 90 cm by 45cm.

<snip>

I believe it's Petco in the US do dollar per gallon sales so you can get a 40 gallon breeder tank for $40.
Yes in California. Thanks for all the great ideas. Waiting for the aquarium sale would be difficult since I have the hamster now. Those 40 gallon ones are very expensive, $200+

What do you think of this one?

https://www.amazon.com/Levels-Ferret...s=pet-supplies

Regards,
CJ
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Old 03-31-2019, 03:53 AM   #5
bithead007
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Default Re: 20 gal long tank 30x12x12 --> need topper

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serendipity7000 View Post
Also - if and when you move him, this needs to be done carefully.
Wow! Thank you for all the great ideas and advice! That helps inform my thinking quite a bit.

I've discovered he likes carrots but not really cucumber....the dried peas and carrots mix appears to be like candy!

Regards,
CJ
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Old 03-31-2019, 04:08 AM   #6
alpacassei
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Default Re: 20 gal long tank 30x12x12 --> need topper

Quote:
Originally Posted by bithead007 View Post
Yes in California. Thanks for all the great ideas. Waiting for the aquarium sale would be difficult since I have the hamster now. Those 40 gallon ones are very expensive, $200+

What do you think of this one?

https://www.amazon.com/Levels-Ferret...s=pet-supplies

Regards,
CJ
Unfortunately that cage is still too small. It also has wire floors which are very dangerous. The only suitable US cage is the Prevue 528 ehich is basically the Alaska cage you may of heard European members talking about.

https://www.amazon.com/Prevue-Pet-Pr...x=prevu&sr=8-1
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Old 03-31-2019, 04:38 AM   #7
bithead007
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Default Re: 20 gal long tank 30x12x12 --> need topper

Quote:
Originally Posted by alpacassei View Post
Unfortunately that cage is still too small. It also has wire floors which are very dangerous. The only suitable US cage is the Prevue 528 ehich is basically the Alaska cage you may of heard European members talking about.

https://www.amazon.com/Prevue-Pet-Pr...x=prevu&sr=8-1
OK I'll get the Prevue thanks for checking it out for me.

Regards,
CJ
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Old 03-31-2019, 05:00 AM   #8
Pebbles82
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Default Re: 20 gal long tank 30x12x12 --> need topper

Agree with Alpa - it is posibble to cover the wire shelves and add extra levels to avoid fall risks, but the amount extra that would cost in additional items, it would be better to get the Prevue Also the base is still too small really. They do better with more floor space and less height, but one level is good.

I think your hammy will be very happy in the Prevue cage though - it has a good sized door at the front so makes it easier with interaction and taming.

If you buy substrate in bulk you can save a lot of money ongoing and be able to put a lot in the base (plus the more you have the less often you need to change it all). Boxo is one that is cheap and sold in bulk - I think Walmart sell it - it's soft cardboard/paper. If you find it isn't soft enough you could get a bag of Kaytee Clean and Cozy and mix a bit of that in as well - using more Boxo than Kaytee so both last longer

Forgot to mention - as well as substrate, you want nesting material - the safest nesting material is plain white toilet paper - just tear the sheets into strips and put a pile in the cage, but not in the house and the hammy will use it to build a cosy nest - it's safe if chewed or swallowed unlike some other nesting materials which can cause internal blockages (fluffy bedding type things).

The shelf is good in the cage too as you can put a food bowl on it so it doesn't sink in the substrate, and fix the water bottle over the shelf too (if it fits) so the shelf catches any drips.

Another tip is use a terracotta plant pot base under the water bottle on the shelf - this soaks up any drips and also helps keep the hamster's nails trim every time they go for a drink as it's rough. Otherwise, over time their nails get too long and clipping them can be tricky.
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Old 04-03-2019, 07:37 PM   #9
bithead007
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Default Re: 20 gal long tank 30x12x12 --> need topper

The Prevue 528 cage arrives tomorrow! Thanks again. Now to learn about hand taming him.
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Old 04-04-2019, 08:24 AM   #10
Pebbles82
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Default Re: 20 gal long tank 30x12x12 --> need topper

Excellent Hand taming may be set back a bit by the cage change, but within 2 to 3 weeks you could progress with that (possibly earlier). In my experience it can take a bit of time and patience, without rushing the hamster, but when it happens it can be instant. Varies with the personality of the hamster etc though.
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