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Old 02-13-2019, 06:20 PM   #1
SandyT
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Default Cage seems small

I constantly look at my cage and am convinced it's too small, I have the Savic Plaza. Compared to in the shop and the rubbish a lot of the shops sell, its a palace but to me, it seems so little. The only other cage that I know of that is bigger is the XL Borneo and that is even taller. I'm not sure if I should upgrade though. I've had Marnie just over 3 weeks and been taming her throughout that time. She's always loved her wheel and in that time not been much of a chewer. 3 days ago, she suddenly gained in confidence. I set up a nice play pen for her with houses, toys, and sand bath etc and she hates it. I thought, OK, this is normal, she's not used to it, she's just focused on trying to escape but that will settle down in time. She kept making a funny sort of sneezing noise which I think is stress. I put her back in her cage after a while and she kept hanging around the front of the cage and clinging on everything at the front. I put this down to her wanting to be out but she wasn't exactly happy when she was out. The following day I found she'd chewed a bit at something she'd never touched before. Last night, she was straight at the front when she got up, still trying to escape her pen but less of the noises. Though she was trying to dig out of her and bath, poor thing. When she went back in her cage, she started frantically chewing at her card box and doing the same behaviour as the previous night. I was concerned and felt so guilty that I essentially left the room. I still think she was just trying to get my attention though. Tonight, still trying to escape the pen, not too much in the way of noises. Back in the cage, back to frantic box chewing and a bit of bar chewing thrown in for good measure. I'm still sure it's attention seeking so that I get her out but I'm worried that it's because she's unhappy and stressed. Again, I've turned off the light and left the room in the hope it calms her down. She stops bar chewing when I tell her no but would I be better ignoring it as it probably is purely to get my attention. I'm so stressed and worried about her at the moment. I know it's still very early days but i don't want her to be unhappy. I want her to have a happy and enriched life. Sorry for the stupidly long post.
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Old 02-13-2019, 10:47 PM   #2
cypher
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Default Re: Cage seems small

The bar chewing & some of the other behaviour does sound like attention seeking & the best thing is to walk away & ignore them when they do that although I know it can be hard, if you give them attention it just escalates.
I would just persevere with out of cage time for now & try to find things she really enjoys doing.
She might benefit from a larger cage but I wouldn't be in a rush to upgrade as you haven't had her long & a change like that could knock her confidence back & be a bit much.
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Old 02-14-2019, 02:18 AM   #3
SandyT
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Default Re: Cage seems small

OK. Thank you Cypher. I'm just worried in case she's not happy or I'm not giving her something she needs. That wouldn't be fair on her.
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Old 02-14-2019, 02:48 AM   #4
mangoandmimi
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Default Re: Cage seems small

It isn’t uncommon for Syrians to want more space than the plaza unfortunately but agree that a change now could set things back a bit. That said a cage change is always going to be stressful! But if you wanted to think about upgrades though there is also the large eco habitat which is a good size and would allow for much more bedding than a barred cage which is important.

But try not to worry too much it is probably normal to keep wondering if they can benefit from more space. It’s definitely on my mind quite a lot!
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Old 02-14-2019, 03:12 AM   #5
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Default Re: Cage seems small

Female Syrians can be like that unfortunately. They’re really high-energy and need a lot of space. I’m not sure if the eco-habitat would be a good choice though since it’s partially wooden, a hyperactive female could probably chew through the wooden corners pretty fast.
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Old 02-14-2019, 04:05 AM   #6
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Default Re: Cage seems small

Yes that’s true forgot it was wooden. Fish tanks are the only fully escape proof option but 5ft ones and above are insanely expensive & unmoveable. I sometimes look at the zooplus photo review section with the joined eco habitats to make one large cage and think they look amazing. In cages that size wood chewing should be rare!
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Old 02-14-2019, 04:17 AM   #7
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Default Re: Cage seems small

Three weeks is not very long And they can easily get scared and spooked. It sounds like she was a bit spooked by the playpen.

Is there anything else that could have stressed her as well? A bit of a cage clean or spot cleaning possibly? It's still very early days and she'll have only just settled into the cage.

Newt was a bit like this when a baby - wanting to be out every night and trying to escape the playpen - just let them! (I mean let them try not let them escape). Did you sit in the playpen as well (I had to be really careful there as Newt tried to use my foot and shoulder as an escape route.

It was suggested to me at the time, that the playpen may be a bit of a large space at first and actually regressing any taming, but we just carried on and he started enjoying it. In it I had a wheel - and he just liked hopping on and off that and running through a tunnel. I then added a flying saucer and he had great fun trying to run up that to use it as an escape route!

When they're young and very active like that they're probably not interested in sand baths and houses - although if you you have a large sputnik I used one of those upside down as a hide in the playpen and he was hilarious - moving it around while he was inside it (to stay safe?).

They are only babies and get scared and excited easily. So I would just persist using the playpen.

They do need a lot of nesting material to forage for at this time of year when it's cold - they instinctively need to keep lining their nest as they sense it's not warm - that could have been the cardboard box shredding.

The bar chewing I would put down to cage stress - if something has moved or changed - is that the case? Either that or it is just wanting to be out and to escape again.

This will settle down - as she gets a bit older by a few months old, and as she is more and more tame. In my experience, until they are fully hand tame and trust you, all they want to do is run away!

So I don't think it's about the size of the cage but more just being a baby and being scared - and possibly something in her cage that has made her feel insecure if anything has been moved or cleaned. Shredding the box could be for nesting material. Does she have a house big enough for a very large nest and/or a large nest - they really feel the cold at night - our hammy has stuffed his house full of bedding and is in foraging mode when out and about.

Throw into that mix that she is female and on heat every four days! I believe that can make them more hyper.

Would suggest not cleaning or changing anything in the cage for at least another couple of weeks. And keep using the playpen for her, with a wheel and a tunnel in as well as other things - and a chew stick and the odd treat scattered here and there for her to forage (food is often a good distraction).

Then when she is a few months old and fully hand tame, see if the cage seems big enough for her or not.

They just dig in anything to see if there's a way out

Have added a couple of videos of when Newt was a baby in the playpen. To show how whizzy he was! And using the flying saucer to try and get over the top. They can be quite savvy - he used to run up my sleeve if I leaned over to stroke or handle him and in a flash he'd be round the back of my top and down my back and out! I had to get in the playpen quick so he didn't escape!

After a few weeks he stopped liking being in the playpen and just used to sit in the corner and didn't seem to happy. So then I started having him out on the sofa and he would enjoy climbing over the cushions or even just sitting for a nap He was fully hand tame at that point and less whizzy.

This is him hiding in the sputnik and moving around in it. They will chew absolutely anything to test it.

Last thought - is her wheel spinning ok?




I'd had him a few weeks when this was taken



This was one of his first times in the playpen when he was only 6.5 weeks old. They do like a wheel to run in!

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Old 02-16-2019, 07:44 AM   #8
SandyT
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Default Re: Cage seems small

Thank you all for your replies. I discovered those pictures of the 2 eco habitats together last week, they look amazing. I have been persevering with the out of cage time. I don't currently have a wheel in there because I thought it would be more interesting to her if it was different to her cage and also thought that with her running around in there, should wouldn't need it. I will look into a wheel or a large saucer for her. She runs over me a little more than she did but purely as an escape route, this is when I am in there with her. When she's in there on her own, I have a lot more stuff in there than in your videos, Serendipity as I thought they didn't like open space. She's still trying to escape the play pen. She's not really interested in food when she's in there. I haven't really done anything different with her cage, other than put those water bottle stands in there. I did do a spot clean but these new behaviors have only started since she suddenly became more confident. Her bar chewing had increased and I do try and ignore her. Her wheel is fine, it's A Silent Runner. She has the large Rodipet labyrinth house. Lots of substrate.
It might sound silly but what do you consider fully hands take? Currently, she runs from hand to hand and up my arms. On occasion she will stay still for a few seconds. She likes to burrow between my arm and body to try and escape! She climbs up my arms and onto my shoulders. She's about 5 or 6 months old now but I knew that as she'd been in P@H for so long and not much handling, that taming would take a while.
I'm just concerned that she's really unhappy and stressed and I feel like I'm not doing my best by her.
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Old 02-16-2019, 07:53 AM   #9
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Default Re: Cage seems small

Her behaviour out of the cage & climbing on you, running from hand to hand but not sitting still for more than a moment sounds pretty typical for an active young female tbh, they can be a bit hyper to say the least, trying to escape the playpen is fairly normal for some hams too, I don't think it's trying to escape something they don't like as much as exploring boundaries, natural behaviour really. I always think it's better to have lots of things in the playpen if you're not in with them, something might get her attention for more than a moment!
Is she still chewing the bars in the cage? Does she have things like whimzees to chew on in the cage?
I think some females can be quite hard to satisfy but nothing you say sounds really worrying although I can imagine how it makes you feel but try not to worry too much.
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Old 02-16-2019, 08:04 AM   #10
mangoandmimi
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Default Re: Cage seems small

To be honest none of my female Syrians have actually appreciated time in the playpen. They’re not big enough! I do think free ranging them is much better - some won’t like it but lots do so if you can hamster proof a room entirely then it might help.

I will say I wouldn’t wait around for her to calm down or mature with age as it’s not uncommon for them to remain hyperactive through their lives, even if they are fully tame. They can be quite different to males.

Edit
When their bar chewing increases to the point that it’s constant it becomes a serious danger - at that point chews and things often do little to help and they do usually need to be moved into a cage without bars unfortunately.

Last edited by mangoandmimi; 02-16-2019 at 08:14 AM.
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