Cage seems small

[SandyT]

Hmm, seems like my options are quite limited then. No barred cage, no plastic cage, Detolf not much of an upgrade. I'm worried if I went crazy and bought 2 Living World Habitats, that she would chew through that. Also, I have heard very mixed reviews. I got some millet today so I'll hand that in her cage. I don't think the picture is great but this is her current set up, please excuse how scruffy it looks, Marnie did that. I am thinking of moving the Cork log so it lays flat and I have bought a terracotta sand bath to go in there. She had been using her plastic litter tray but now she chews that.

[mangoandmimi]

If you’re gonna go crazy and buy 2 eco habitats I would also consider buying a 5 by 2 foot tank off ebay for a bit more money as then you really won’t have chewing out problems. Options are limited unfortunately. Good thing about 2 eco habitats is it can be taken apart and moved unlike a tank that size, 2 mediums would also offer more room.

I found this the other day http://www.hamstercentral.com/commun...2-post322.html
It’s a good size and I think it’s two wooden cages joined together, maybe DM to check. Anyway I was looking at similar wooden cages and they’re only about £60 each so maybe something to think about.

The detolf isn’t a huge upgrade but I do see a difference, I had the Barney and zoozone 2 at one point which are approx the same size as the plaza and there is a fair difference between the two and I can do a lot more with a detolf. I still don’t think it’s particularly suitable for a Syrian unless you make a cage topper though.

[SandyT]

The shelf on the left runs all the way across. On top of it, at the very back is a bendy bridge. As you come to the front, there is a ledge with a treat toy on top of it. Then get water bottle holder and bottle. In the front left corner is another little ledge type of thing, that treats go in and did hold wooden carrots until she buried them all. More caird on order! Her new Whimzee is also up there. Under the shelf is a ceramic jar, her plastic litter tray and a toilet roll. There is a cork log that she can use to run up and down the inside of. On the floor of the cage is a grass type ball that I put treats in and the rest of the pets at home box she came in, she likes to chew this. There is also a home made treat ball that I have her last night and some torn up toilet paper that she hasn't used for her nest. At the back, it's her wheel. On the right hand side, is her large labyrinth house. The is a bendy bridge that leads to the top of this, as it doubles up as a platform. On top is another bendy bridge over the top entrance to make it darker, her food bowl, water holder and bottle and a chew she came with. In her house, there is a ceramic little tray. There is another bendy bridge that leads up to another shelf along the back. On top of this shelf is another type of toy that I put tears in. When I say treats, what I mean really is seeds and stuff out of her food, or sometimes nuts or her freeze dried chicken. She has fresh veg daily. Tonight, I'm going to give her a little bit of scrambled egg that I put by for her earlier. I cooked it and put it in the fridge, I hope that's OK. There is nothing else in it, it's purely egg. Sorry for the long post again, I just wanted to try and give a better idea of her cage. Just to add, the shelves, top of her house and one ledge all have hemp mats on them and the Fitch is almost to the top of the base.
Thank you.

[SandyT]

Thank you for the ideas Mango and Mimi. I don't mean to sound mean but it's not really that I want to go crazy and spend that much money on a set up, not at all. I just feel that I took on the responsibility of this little animal and and as such, it's my job to make her as happy and comfortable as possible. I'm sure most people if not everyone on this forum feels the same way.
That set up in the pics is phenomenal but I simply don't have the space. If I did have to go down the Eco Habitat route, they'd have to be one in front of the other and not side by side, so more of a square shape.

[mangoandmimi]

I completely understand, I just meant it’s expensive, we do need to be reasonable of course and to not put yourself in the poor house because of a cage (although I really don’t take my own advice unfortunately). You are being a great owner though as it is very common to try and turn a blind eye to stress behaviours from hamsters just because a cage is a decent size. Always important to listen to your hamsters.

[Pebbles82]

I remember your set up now Can't see anything she wouldn't like there. I also don't think you need to go ultra massive. The bar chewing experiment in Germany established that hamsters stopped chewing bars when they got up to a 1 metre square cage. She sounds like a very active little lady who likes to be very busy.

I think the Eco Habitat would be plenty big enough. She may try and chew the inner wood corner pieces but if that happened they could be strengthened/protected with metal corner strips inside.

It is a difficult one - if they actually stop bar chewing when the cage gets to a certain size then a metal barred cage would be better than a solid sided one with wood pieces. But that would be a bit of a risk. A glass tank would be very big and heavy and very expensive. So something will have to be a compromise.

I think the detolf is quite an upgrade - but hamsters have been known to bar chew in that (the inner bars).

I am trying to think what I would do. Some of the decision would be your own instinct re her behaviour.

I wouldn't base cage size on how she behaves in a playpen - all hamsters want to escape playpens.

I think if it was me I would go with the Eco Habitat - because it has a good depth and large floor area. Mesh the lid (on the inside). And prepare it with some kind of protection over the inner wood strips at the corners. You could try Correx/coroplast on the base, then if she did chew that, replace it with a sheet of perspex.

Depends if that sounds like too much diy. However the large size Eco habitat is really quite expensive at £169.99. Plus mesh and bits and pieces. It is the biggest commercial cage you can buy though - looks rather nice and is on wheels, but I think I would balk at the price.

[SandyT]

Thank you. That means a lot because I feel I'm being rubbish even though I know I've tried to everything I can. I'll have to have a long hard think about what to do.
Thank you again.
Thank you Serendipity. The idea with the Eco Habitat was to have 2 medium sized ones and join them together. People have done this length ways to, which seems to be the preferred thing. I'd have to do one in front of the other but I'm not sure that would work as well as length ways.

[Pebbles82]

You know what - I would try some things with her cage first. Adding overhead cover - it may simply be something to do with feeling a bit exposed from above, especially if she's a baby.


Try a couple of things in her cage before deciding on bigger cages. It adds enrichment and gives her more things to do and places to go and some overhead cover. They tend to like the sputniks with some substrate in - if it's easy to access (ie next to a shelf or leads somewhere via a tunnel).

1) Get one of those grass hammocks to hang from the top so it's like something darker above her - and doesn't matter if she chews it - although keep an eye on it in case it starts to collapse if chewed!

2) Also get one of the Rat sputniks they also give overhead cover and somewhere else to go and explore.

I actually had a roof run in my cages for a while - the sputnik hung next to a shelf. Then a large tube tied to the roof of the cage led from the sputnik to another shelf (or another sputnik maybe). That gives a whole extra sort of "floor area" roof run and also provides overhead cover. You may be able to get a grass hammock in as well.

To give an idea have added photos of the roof runs I had in Charlie's cages - the 80 x 50 cage looks ridiculously overfull

The last one shows the overhead cover a hammock can give - it was when Charlie was old and I'd taken shelves out - he couldn't actually get up to the hammock.

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[Pebbles82]

The other thing I'd suggest tweaking would be the access to the shelf. Maybe have the cork log at ground level (partly under the shelf) and a less steep ramp up to the shelf. I use the screw on bendy bridges and attach them to the side of the cage. i use two of these as they're not that long for a ramp.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRIDGE-HOUSE-SHELF-RAMP-CHIPMUNK-HAMSTER-RAT-DEGU-CAGE/291959400164?epid=601180343&hash=item43fa22e6e4:g: 0ysAAOSw5VFWHRqJ:rk:1f:0

I know it means buying a few more bits and pieces but if you still end up upgrading you can re-use them as floor toys or in a playpen.

The sputniks and grass hammock you can get at Zooplus (or Amazon). The large plastic savic tube is also sold by both.

https://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/small...es/mats/204595

https://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/small...ls/dens/209851

The tunnel - but don't use the chains - The tabs fit through the bars and I use sisal string as well to secure it.

https://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/small...at_toys/132219

Hiding treats in the sputniks and tunnel etc tempts them up there. Just off to look at your cage pic again.

[Pebbles82]

Ok - How securely attached are the bendy stick ramps up to the house and the shelf behind the house? If they move or wobble they can feel insecure. The one up to the house is a bit too steep really.

I have always had problems with ramps and them not staying in place very well which was why I got the screw on bendy bridges.

Our Robo Nugget went a bit funny recently when his ramp fell over a couple of times and he wasn't happy till I replaced it!

I think the screw on bendy bridges at the front would work for the left hand shelf - it would overlap the door slightly at the bottom but not much and also make it easier to get out of the door .

A little ledge at the front just below the house roof would make a secure step up to it - but assume she uses the top door as well? Although sometimes they block that up in winter.

It has reminded me that "access" is something hamsters have to feel right with or they make a fuss - I think she needs to be able to get onto the house roof easily without having to use the top door. If you look at my last photo above I had two screw in ledges to make steps up because bendy bridges kept sinking in the deeper substrate. I've also used one of these as a step (pushed down into the substrate a bit). makes another hidey place as well.

https://www.rodipet.de/shop/zubehoer...rrado-bau.html

Both her water bottles are on shelves and if she finds it difficult getting up there or doesn't feel secure climbing the ramps/steepness or it just makes it harder to access the water, it might be stressing her.