Hamster tiny cage dilemma - Page 2

ThePiggyRoom · 08-19-2018, 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serendipity7000

It doesn't seem as if they are the kind to let the hammy roam free. I would be tempted to say their hamster had died and keep it! (Which is not really ethical or good for the pet sitting business plus it's lying). The cage is very tiny and not big enough to fit a wheel in, which is important. It is probably for space and cost reasons they have them in small cages. It's a tricky one because even if you gave them your Zoozone 2 they may just say they haven't got space for it and want her back in her old cage.

What conditions were they in when they arrived? (Enough bedding? Somewhere to nest? Something to chew on? Able to have normal behaviours? If not then it doesn't meet the welfare needs.

The 2006 Animal Welfare Act says there's a need to provide for the five welfare needs:

need for a suitable environment
need for a suitable diet
need to be able to exhibit normal behaviour patterns
need to be housed with, or apart, from other animals
need to be protected from pain, suffering, injury and disease.

It may be a bit borderline - I'd say a cage that size for a Syrian doesn't allow for normal behaviour patterns and could cause suffering. Having a wheel isn't considered essential but being able to exercise (normal behaviour patterns) is essential. So if they let the hamster free roam daily it's probably not a welfare issue. But they would probably have told you if that was the case.

Three years old is very old and she sounds quite well and active but had responded positively to the upgrade. It wouldn't do any harm to ring the RSPCA and ask for advice. I wouldn't make a bin cage - they may refuse to take it. The RSPCA may advise on how to deal with the situation with some authority - eg they may give you the authority to be able to say that unless the hamster has xyz you unfortunately will not be able to return it. That would be hard to have to say. But without some authority you can't really do that. The only consolation is- if the hamster is 3 and seems in good health then maybe they do give it lots of time and attention and out of cage time.

I would be tempted to say you had to move her to a larger cage because she became so stressed after they left and she is now settled in that cage and enjoying the wheel and say you will let them have the Zoozone 2 if they will agree to let her stay in it as it's better for an older hamster as they start to struggle with levels and tubes and are better with more floorspace. But they probably won't want to spend any money on lots of bedding, wheel, toys etc so there's no guarantee it will remain a suitable environment. So I'd ring the RSPCA and ask for some advice on how to handle this. Yes they are busy and may not have time to come and look, but they do rely on animal rescues to take a lot of pets they can't house so they will probably at least advise you on how to handle this.

If you've already advised them about cages and they're not interested then asking advice from the RSPCA may be the way to go.

Thanks for the very helpful reply. I think the rats meet most of their welfare needs, their cage is big enough, they have sufficient bedding, food and chew toys. The hamster had sufficient bedding (sawdust), a tiny house with no nesting material and no chews/toys or anything else except a water bottle. I think she spends her whole time trying to chew her way out, as the bars are very chewed and all the exits are taped/fixed shut.

I did think about telling them she had died, but she belongs to a boy who looks around 9 or 10 and he is absolutely devoted to her and his mother said he will be devastated when she dies.

Re her age the mother told me she was 3 years old, but I noticed this morning that she has put two and a half on the booking form, either way she is a good age for a hamster. She is happy and friendly so has not been mistreated except for the tiny cage.

I will ring the rspca and see what they say. If I do end up giving them a cage, I will also include a wheel and some toys. It will cost me quite a bit of money, but I would rather do that and help the hamster. I would imagine as soon as she dies a replacement hamster will end up in the tiny cage, so in a way I will be helping two hammies.

chesca_27 · 08-19-2018, 03:07 AM

I can't really give any extra advice, since everyone else seems to have covered it, but I do want to say I really admire the way you're dealing with the situation and how you are willing to give up a cage and wheel to help this hamster have a better life. I've never used a hamster boarder but I've used plenty of guinea pig boarders and not one of them seems to care as deeply as you do.

ThePiggyRoom · 08-19-2018, 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesca_27

I can't really give any extra advice, since everyone else seems to have covered it, but I do want to say I really admire the way you're dealing with the situation and how you are willing to give up a cage and wheel to help this hamster have a better life. I've never used a hamster boarder but I've used plenty of guinea pig boarders and not one of them seems to care as deeply as you do.

Aw, thank you, that has made my day! The hardest thing I find about boarding is that all the animals aren't treated as they should be. I try to make sure all my cages and hutches are above the minimum standard and educate where I can. Giving this little hammy a better home means more to me than the money it will cost me. At this rate I don't think boarding is going to make me rich 😂

Pebbles82 · 08-19-2018, 10:03 AM

How about a slight upgrade - ie not to something as big as an Alaska (they may find it too big for their space) but better than she has now. Although an Alaska is cheapest. A standard duna multy maybe? They cost about £33. Or this - it's slightly smaller than the standard duna multy but it's low and has a good built in house so she can build a proper nest and it's space saving. I have one I got as a holiday cage a couple of years ago. Silly little top doors but the whole cage top lifts off very easily. An 11" trixie wheel wouldn't fit in either of them but an 8" would. A lower cage would be better for an older hammy too. Reckon she might like a duna multy though if she likes the Zoozone. Start charging £25 instead of £10 to recoup the losses

I just paid £40 for a week for a petsitter!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Skyline-Ted...ds=Skyline+ted

ThePiggyRoom · 08-20-2018, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serendipity7000

How about a slight upgrade - ie not to something as big as an Alaska (they may find it too big for their space) but better than she has now. Although an Alaska is cheapest. A standard duna multy maybe? They cost about £33. Or this - it's slightly smaller than the standard duna multy but it's low and has a good built in house so she can build a proper nest and it's space saving. I have one I got as a holiday cage a couple of years ago. Silly little top doors but the whole cage top lifts off very easily. An 11" trixie wheel wouldn't fit in either of them but an 8" would. A lower cage would be better for an older hammy too. Reckon she might like a duna multy though if she likes the Zoozone. Start charging £25 instead of £10 to recoup the losses

I just paid £40 for a week for a petsitter!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Skyline-Ted...ds=Skyline+ted

Thanks for the suggestions, I did think that getting something slightly bigger might be the way to go. The skyline cage looks good, but is out of stock at the moment and the hamster is going home Saturday. I have found an Alaska cage on gumtree and it comes with a trixie wheel and lots of toys, but as you said, they may not have space for such a large cage.

Pebbles82 · 08-21-2018, 02:09 AM

Fingers crossed they take it on board. Maybe when they come to get her and see her in the Zoozone and you can smile and tell them she's a very old hamster now and soon she won't be able to climb tubes and would be happier with more space at floor level and how she loves her wheel and you would give them a cage and a wheel that isn't quite so big as the Zoozone but would make her old age happy and comfortable .... Just say you hope they don't mind but you think she really needs a different cage for her ongoing welfare, and the Alaska is the cage that is considered the basic standard for a Syrian hamster and pet shops just sell small cages for money. Maybe suggest that it could sit easily on top of a chest of drawers in a bedroom and she won't try and escape from this one.

I would also have a problem in returning her in that cage because the one level on its own would be quite cruel for a fully grown syrian hamster and she will be unable to use the tube to the top level as she ages in the next month or two. You could print out these four RSPCA sheets to give them and sort of kindly and diplomatically point out that their hamster needs more space in the cage for her welfare, especially as she gets older, and a dark house inside it and a wheel and if they agree with this and the information you can give them the Alaska cage and Trixie wheel and although it takes up more space it would easily sit on top of a chest of drawers. And that hamsters in that kind of cage usually don't try to escape because they have enough space at night to run around.

If they refuse all that and insist on keeping her in the same cage then maybe ask them for an assurance that they will let her out every day. And that is probably all you can do. Although I would still be tempted to ring the RSPCA before the owners come back and say to them you feel you can't return the hamster unless the owners upgrade the cage from the current one and see what they say.

This general page stresses the need to "care for them properly" and the duty under the animal welfare act - but has a friendly tone to it all.

https://www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwe...dents/hamsters

This page is clear about them needing a lot of space at night and a wheel for exercise.

https://www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwe...ters/behaviour

This page has the link to "Home cage for hamsters" at the bottom of the page which opens as a pdf and can be printed out. It's a bit vague and has some unusual suggestions for bedding! But the main thing is it does say they need a lot of space and "generous" space. It also has the link to "Shelters for hamsters" which also opens as a pdf that can be printed out. And that makes it clear that they need a house for nesting and hoarding that's dark inside - which also makes it clear the cage needs to be big enough to fit a decent sized house in.

https://www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwe...rs/environment

souffle · 08-21-2018, 02:27 AM

Why not offer the larger cage 'on loan' for the rest of her life? That way they will be able to bring it back but can see how she is settled in it while they have her?

Pebbles82 · 08-21-2018, 02:31 AM

That's a good idea!

ThePiggyRoom · 08-21-2018, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serendipity7000

Fingers crossed they take it on board. Maybe when they come to get her and see her in the Zoozone and you can smile and tell them she's a very old hamster now and soon she won't be able to climb tubes and would be happier with more space at floor level and how she loves her wheel and you would give them a cage and a wheel that isn't quite so big as the Zoozone but would make her old age happy and comfortable .... Just say you hope they don't mind but you think she really needs a different cage for her ongoing welfare, and the Alaska is the cage that is considered the basic standard for a Syrian hamster and pet shops just sell small cages for money. Maybe suggest that it could sit easily on top of a chest of drawers in a bedroom and she won't try and escape from this one.

I would also have a problem in returning her in that cage because the one level on its own would be quite cruel for a fully grown syrian hamster and she will be unable to use the tube to the top level as she ages in the next month or two. You could print out these four RSPCA sheets to give them and sort of kindly and diplomatically point out that their hamster needs more space in the cage for her welfare, especially as she gets older, and a dark house inside it and a wheel and if they agree with this and the information you can give them the Alaska cage and Trixie wheel and although it takes up more space it would easily sit on top of a chest of drawers. And that hamsters in that kind of cage usually don't try to escape because they have enough space at night to run around.

If they refuse all that and insist on keeping her in the same cage then maybe ask them for an assurance that they will let her out every day. And that is probably all you can do. Although I would still be tempted to ring the RSPCA before the owners come back and say to them you feel you can't return the hamster unless the owners upgrade the cage from the current one and see what they say.

This general page stresses the need to "care for them properly" and the duty under the animal welfare act - but has a friendly tone to it all.

https://www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwe...dents/hamsters

This page is clear about them needing a lot of space at night and a wheel for exercise.

https://www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwe...ters/behaviour

This page has the link to "Home cage for hamsters" at the bottom of the page which opens as a pdf and can be printed out. It's a bit vague and has some unusual suggestions for bedding! But the main thing is it does say they need a lot of space and "generous" space. It also has the link to "Shelters for hamsters" which also opens as a pdf that can be printed out. And that makes it clear that they need a house for nesting and hoarding that's dark inside - which also makes it clear the cage needs to be big enough to fit a decent sized house in.

https://www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwe...rs/environment

Thanks for all the links, I will print them out today. I think I will also either write out some guidelines on all small pets and put them on my website, or put links to all the info. I haven't rung the rspca yet, I am a little worried that if the rspca step in, she will write a bad review. Then other people won't book their animals in with me. I don't want to lose the money, but also I will lose the opportunity to educate people where I can about the correct size cages, food etc. Also, if they take the animals off them, what is to stop them going out and buying more? I am worried about the rats though. They are so fat that they can't climb and are permanently stuck on the bottom of their cage.

We went and got the Alaska last night, I will move her into it tonight. It was £25, but it did come with a wheel and some toys, but no house, so I will have to find a cheap one before Saturday when she goes home. I will have to measure it to make sure, but I think it would fit on top of the rats cage, as long as the rats cage is kept on the floor, that would be an option maybe if they are short of space.

ThePiggyRoom · 08-21-2018, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by souffle

Why not offer the larger cage 'on loan' for the rest of her life? That way they will be able to bring it back but can see how she is settled in it while they have her?

I did think of that, but what if they get another hamster after she dies?