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View Poll Results: What do you think the minimum cage size for hamsters should be?
Under 400 sq inches 4 19.05%
400-600sq inches 3 14.29%
600-800sq inches 9 42.86%
800-900sq inches 5 23.81%
900-1000sq inches 0 0%
1000+ sq inches 0 0%
Voters: 21. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-22-2016, 04:14 AM   #21
Pebbles82
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Default Re: What do you think the minimum cage size should be?

Interesting that genetics makes a difference! It makes me think of a quirky idea of colour coded for cages tailored for different coloured hamsters lol. Eg extra large for yellows.
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Old 05-22-2016, 04:40 AM   #22
Ceretrea
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Default Re: What do you think the minimum cage size should be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serendipity7000 View Post
Interesting that genetics makes a difference! It makes me think of a quirky idea of colour coded for cages tailored for different coloured hamsters lol. Eg extra large for yellows.
Ahh but then not all yellows and torts are insane just to be difficult. I had a black tort mum who was the calmest I've ever had. She had a litter of 15 and all the melanistic yellows and torts were perfect in terms of temperament. I've seen some brilliant yellows on the judging grid but then other colours that could yell as loud as any yellow
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Old 05-22-2016, 04:51 AM   #23
Pebbles82
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Default Re: What do you think the minimum cage size should be?

I think the Germans have 3 "grades" of size. A legal minimum of 50cm square. A welfare minimum of 100cm by 50cm and an "ideal" or "recommended" size of 1 metre square. 50cm square sounds like an odd size but I guess it's basically 2500 square centimetres (although my maths is atrocious ha ha).

So the idea of the absolute minimum, recommended minimum and ideal is maybe good - it shows that there isn't just one size that is good.
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Old 05-22-2016, 05:58 AM   #24
Frau Heike
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Default Re: What do you think the minimum cage size should be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serendipity7000 View Post
I think the Germans have 3 "grades" of size. A legal minimum of 50cm square. A welfare minimum of 100cm by 50cm and an "ideal" or "recommended" size of 1 metre square.50cm square sounds like an odd size but I guess it's basically 2500 square centimetres (although my maths is atrocious ha ha).
Wow, you did quite some research on German cage size recommendations!

In Germany the legal minimum is 3000cm² for dwarf hamsters (465sq inches) and 5000cm²(775sq inches) for Syrians and other medium sized hamsters. These regulations are stated in a report published by the "Bundesministerium für Ernährung und Landwirtschaft" (Ministry for Nutrition and Agriculture) in 2014 that deals with the keeping of different mammals.

So technically, you could go smaller than the recommended size of 5000cm² for a dwarf but from what I've seen on German hamster forums most people won't go below 4000cm² (620sq inches). For me, 4000cm² is the absolute minimum but bigger is always better.

Last edited by Frau Heike; 05-22-2016 at 06:03 AM.
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Old 05-22-2016, 09:05 AM   #25
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Default Re: What do you think the minimum cage size should be?

I follow the rule of the right cage for each individual. I would encourage people who have out pups to choose certain sizes and types of cage however it needs balanced with the amount of time the owner spends in playtime and the character or the hamster. Being able to assess if the hamster is content and thriving in a cage is a must for owners.

Last edited by souffle; 05-22-2016 at 09:27 AM.
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Old 05-22-2016, 10:56 AM   #26
Kissa
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Default Re: What do you think the minimum cage size should be?

I'm with the various people that have said that "minimum" and "ideal" are not the same thing at all The absolute minimum should be small, in my opinion, to allow for things like hospital cages, holiday cages, cages for very elderly hams, etc. However, I don't think that any healthy hamster should live in a cage that is the absolute minimum full time.
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Old 05-22-2016, 11:58 AM   #27
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Default Re: What do you think the minimum cage size should be?

I feel that the absolute minimum should be kept quite low to allow for different circumstances such as an unwell hamster, babies that have recently been separated and nervous hamsters who may all require something smaller than is quoted as the 'ideal'. In four and a half years of keeping Chinese, I've found that what would be an ideal for one would be unsuitable or unkind for another.

Like Velma, if the absolute minimum was set too high then I'd have a very unhappy hamster. It broke my heart to see him like that once, I wouldn't want him to go through it again.

I like the approach that I've seen from some of the breeders and that is as Ceretrea suggests, where suitable cages are suggested. After all, breeders tend to know the species quite well and will know from experience what is likely to work and what won't.
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Old 05-23-2016, 02:59 AM   #28
Pebbles82
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Default Re: What do you think the minimum cage size should be?

I guess there is a difference between short term and long term housing as well. So an absolute minimum could be ok for short term housing, and a recommended minimum for long term housing. Even for short term housing, anything smaller than a mini duna (2150 sq cm) would seem extremely small. Styles of cages seem to vary too. Some that might meet the absolute minimum aren't a good set up for a hamster. Something like the Rosewood pico cage is about 50 x 35 (1750 sq cm) but is quite tall and has unsuitable levels and a plastic house right at the top.

It is quite a complex issue I guess. Maybe that is why the RSPCA just say they need a lot of floor space after the addition of a suitable dark hide/house and toys.

I think for long term housing I personally wouldn't want to use anything smaller than a standard duna multy or an alaska cage size. (70 x 40 and 80 x 50 ish) Although I accept that set up and style of cage can make a difference and that hamsters needs vary.

Last edited by Pebbles82; 05-23-2016 at 03:07 AM.
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Old 05-23-2016, 04:25 AM   #29
Ceretrea
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Default Re: What do you think the minimum cage size should be?

The RSPCA didn't institute their minimum cage guideline as they'd have to penalise every centre who keep their rescues in dunas or smaller while they wait for a home. Sometimes for months on end.

And it's also interesting because rat cage calculations take more than just floorspace as rats use all the cage, just like mice do. I've found they all tend to prefer more floorspace but that's me. Hamsters are just trying to be complicated
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Old 05-23-2016, 05:21 AM   #30
Pebbles82
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Default Re: What do you think the minimum cage size should be?

Ok - I find this a difficult topic personally. I "grew up on" the RSPCA guideline of 70 x 40 which was published for some time. I think most people looking for cage size information are new owners wanting to do the best for their pets, and they need a guideline (I did). Word of mouth information isn't always as easy to find as something they can google and fine online on a reputable site.

As it was a "recommended" size it is not something to penalise rescue's for if they use smaller sizes but gives helpful information to new owners and can save them heartache and money. I know some rescues have their own minimum size guidelines. And maybe that is all part of education and change to ensure cages aren't too small.

Pet shops keep hamsters in fairly small tanks but the RSPCA didn't penalise them when they had a recommended minimum cage size. Presumably because it was accepted as "reasonable" temporary housing. But if there really is an absolute legal minimum it should be based on what is humane not the fact that rescue's may need to fundraise to improve the size of their cages.

Sorry - I'll shut up now.
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