an idea to get all the small cages of the market

[internet_nobody]

I think i'm a cage snob I don't go smaller than 46 x 30 - and even then thats only for injured hams/really hot weather (its a ferplast criceti 9, I have a few for emergencies)...for standard housing I have nothing smaller than a rody. It does seriously limit the number of hamsters I can have though, I currently have 4 ZZ1s, a gabber rex and a rody. I can squeeze in two imac fantasies on top and thats it - but i'm not going to as I want to make sure I have room in case of fights. I do have a ZZ2 I used to use for large robo groups, but i'm down to a pair and a single so the ZZ2 is now for brooding chicks.

When i've had rescues in on top of all my own hams its been a bit of a nightmare...I had a pair of Syrians (seperate) who were supposed to be staying a week and ended up with me for a few months - when they were moved into the hamster room the poor things were on the floor as I was out of shelving...so for now its only rescues who I will be able to re-home that can sneak in!

[Mollz Mum]

I have to say that whilst by choice we home our hamsters in Gabbers, this would be an impossible task for the larger breeders (we only have 6 hammy's at present, with space for 15-18 max).
I have to support the breeders, they have a large amount of hammy's so that they are able to breed the range of colours and variants that we are all clamouring for (and lets face it, most of us wouldn't be here if it wasn't for the likes of BVH, Towy Vale or Tristar - they have pretty much provided all of us with our beautiful hammy's at one time or another).
I have actually visited BVH to collect our adorable Gizmo and have seen their hammy's. They are all kept in comfortable and clean condition, they are all known individually by name, most have wheels, all have "entertainment" and are extremely well cared for. And we know that their (and the other large breeders') hammy's are very happy, in superb condition and champions at shows, as well as producing excellent babies, so their cage size (as long as it's not the ridiculously small ones) plays no part in their well being.
If larger cage sizes were made compulsory, these breeders would most likely disappear, as would their beautiful hammy's, which would be a very sad loss to all of us - let's remember who we all turn to for advice and support.
So whilst I am in full support of cage sizes being recommended to the general public (who will most probably not take the same care of their animals as the breeders), if we must have these debates and discussions, can we please please please leave the larger breeders out of the "knocking".
(a bit of a long essay, I'm sorry, but it's something that I feel very strongly about).

[Bunsey]

can someone post a picture of the NHC smallest cage cos i have no idea what 1000cm 2 looks like! i'm assuming this is something like a starter cage?

I have to agree with I_N in that i won't use small or even medium sized cages. I felt guilty when i had max and paddy each in a 42L tub, but they are bigger than starter cages.

I have robos in nothing smaller than a rody and syrians in nothing smaller than a rex. i have winter whites in luxes but i'd love them to be in a rex, too. just not enough space though, so i do see the point people are making. I think there's a difference though between just not spoiling a hamster and not giving it adequate space. the luxes are perfectly adequate, where i don't think starter type cages are. A one-level imac is fine for a chinese, but i gave mine two-level imacs, to make them happy and spoil them. i wouldn't think bad of anyone with a chinese in a one-level though. it's big enough. not like something like a spelos or starter prison.

i'm a little torn really, because without the big breeders, the fancy would collapse and the hams from those breeders are excellent!! Then on the other hand i think well if i used starter cages i could have twice as many hams and breed twice as many, but is that ethical? i wouldn't feel right. I'll just breed as many as i can fit into my rexes for syrians/dwarf pairs and luxes for single dwarfs.

[Bourne Valley Hams]

1000cm 2 is basically around the size of the Ferplast Criceti 9.
http://www.feedem.co.uk/small-animals-4 ... er-476.htm

[Bunsey]

Originally Posted by Bourne Valley Hams

1000cm 2 is basically around the size of the Ferplast Criceti 9.
http://www.feedem.co.uk/small-animals-4 ... er-476.htm

oh that's a bit larger than i thought.

[Jane]

I've put off posting in this but *deep breath*..

I know that with large breeders they need smaller cages, and that the hamsters are still very happy, tame, healthy, in a good condition etc. However, I think that a large cage is very important for a hamsters well being. All hamsters need time out of their cage of course, but if we can't manage this daily, and they're in a small cage then I can't imagine how they can stay entertained and not become bored? If they have a large cage and we don't get them out, they still have lots of room to play, run, etc.

I don't know. I only have two hamsters so I obviously see this from a different point of view, I also never plan to breed and if I ever do then it will be on a very small scale.

I can't help feeling that 1000cm2 is too small. That would mean a cage of 40cm x 25cm is acceptable. That will fit a wheel, a nest/small house, and maybe a small toy.. In my opinion that's not enough.

Maybe my hamsters are just spoiled though, and I can do that because of my very small number. I really am trying to see this from a large breeders point of view but I can't.

Anyway, I'm rambling now.

I think it's important that we do have these larger breeders because they supply so many people with lovely, tame, healthy hamsters. I do agree with Bunsey's point though - is it right to put hamsters into small cages so that you can breed more? If they are having to live in small cages, does that mean that you have too many?

I'm wondering, BVH, would it be possible for you to take a photo of a few of your cages? If you can't, or don't have time etc then that is fine, but I think that really they wont be as small as I'm imagining here.

I hope no one shouts at me and I really put off posting here, but this is all just my opinions.

[Bunsey]

i'd also like to see photos. It's hard to judge from a website pic. Even the rex looks small on a website. I think a lot of us are thinking about smaller cages.

this is the sort of thing i'm on about as a starter cage

http://allpet.co.uk/shop/uploaded_images/n_code133.gif

[Bourne Valley Hams]

A lot of my hamsters are in Criceti 9's. Apart from the LH boys they have wheels, cardboard box houses, toilet roll tubes etc. Most have either a hammock or a section of large tubing (carpet roll inners, pringles pots or gravy pots etc) fixed to the roof. I also have about 30, including the breeding females in FOP Duffys
http://www.pet-supply-store.co.uk/prodd ... 15&cat=158

I will go out and take some photos at some point soon I promise!

[Noodles]

I agree with Mollz (and her Mum!!) in that breeders (of whatever type of animal) will (almost) always have different conditions to purely "pet" people. However, I seem to remember reading a thread in which BVH said about her cages and they were big (not Gabbers but the other tank ones that are nice...helpful description that hey! )
However, I do think the NHC should recommend a larger cage than they do, just so first time owners are encouraged to go as large as possible, which would then encourage petshops to sell the larger cages as peole would ask for them.

IMO, the problem with trying to regulate cage size is that 1)people have very different views on what is acceptable(as you can see from the posts on this thread!!!) and 2) people don't care that much/can't afford an expensive cage.

I currently have Noodles in an extended Imac (I have worked this out to be 6480cm2 - 3 levels at 60cm by 36cm - feel free to correct!!) and, although I don't know much about hamster psychology(!), to me she has seemed much happier since I have extended it so I now would not go any smaller than that for any future hamster. (However, Noodles hates her ball and doesn't use her wheel so I feel she *needs* more space than average).
But my friends think it is hysterical how big her cage is and say it is well over the top. Even people I know who have hamsters and love animals say they wouldn't buy a cage that big. This is why I think if the NHC said a larger size, then people would start to get used to big cages, as in Germany etc.

[Matty Day]

well i made this post not against the large breeders but against all the cruddy hamster torture chambers most pet shops sell.

i.e. rotosatak and the tiny wire cages.

looking at the pic 1000cm2 looks just about acceptable in
my opinion
thought i would like the nhc minimum raised to 1500cm2 but including shelves as floor space