Losing weight

[cypher]

Thanks, I found it now.
What they're saying really is very similar to what happens with humans on a high fat, very low carb diet, I'm sure it could be a cause for weight loss if a ham was fed a large amount of high fat seeds or nuts & not a lot else but most get quite a lot of carbs in their diet, mix & treats, so I would imagine it's really quite rare.

[racinghamster]

It`s a tricky one really dealing with weight loss due to illness and the illness itself that needs balance. Weight loss on it`s own can usually be helped by changing the diet and adding more to it, but dealing with diabetes at the same time can`t be easy. I would look to strike a balance between foods that are necessary and cut out anything I felt wasn`t helpful. x

[Chiela]

Sorry I didn't reply before now.

Chiela is already on a sugar free diet as I knew that campbells are prone to diabetes. And I already changed her diet 3 times. Cypher actually describes the problem really well.

the problem with little Chiela is that she's never had much of an appetite, maybe because she's always been unwell, changing to foods that probably smell a bit more appetising than the Burgess seemed to give her a bit of a boost for a little while but then she began eating less again.

RH> You referred to especially hamsters that eat to many sunflower seeds and nuts. But even this she will usually not eat that much of, for example has she had a hazelnut in her house and two half peanuts in her food bowl for two weeks now, and they are not touched at all (I have of course change the food in her food bowl, but she has got fresh nuts in every time).

I took her to one vet who referred me to another vet that they work closely together with. The second vet knew that the first one had already ruled out everything he could thing of, so he asked me a bunch of questions with less known symptoms. In the end he figured it could pretty much only be type 1 diabetes, which cannot be treated. Usually I woud have questioned this, but this vet has a huge knowledge when it comes to exotic pets. Very well educated both in my country and overseas.

To make sure I will bring her to the vet on monday, if she will make through the weekend. Of course I would want her to survive, but not at all costs. I do think there is a limit to what you should drag your pets through. I believe I tried really hard, but as she has started to make sounds that clearly indicate she is in pain, I think enough is enough, and that it would be really selfish of me to drag her through more.

But I thank you for the input.

[racinghamster]

You know her best Chiela and I always base their quality of life on whether they are still happy to eat/drink, get around and not actually look as though they are ill. Even in old age, hamsters will doddle on at their own pace, but when they stop eating altogether and act and look frail and you get than gut instinct that they are only 24 hours from passing, they usually are.

If she still eats and drinks then those are good signs, but by your description of her body shape and well being, she could be suffering from a deteriorating illness. With diabetes, a hamster will usually drink it`s bottle dry within a few hours, pee a lot and go through mood changes. It`s impossible to say if the vets you saw gave you an actual diagnosis without actually testing for it. If her symptoms are merely mass weight loss yet she`s not got the typical signs of having diabetes, it could be another illness altogether. x

[Chiela]

Originally Posted by racinghamster

You know her best Chiela and I always base their quality of life on whether they are still happy to eat/drink, get around and not actually look as though they are ill. Even in old age, hamsters will doddle on at their own pace, but when they stop eating altogether and act and look frail and you get than gut instinct that they are only 24 hours from passing, they usually are.

I couldn't agree more. I breed guinea pigs a couple of years back, and they have the same behavior. Prey animals will never show weakness, if they can avoid it, so we have to know our animals and their behavior very well.

Originally Posted by racinghamster

If she still eats and drinks then those are good signs, but by your description of her body shape and well being, she could be suffering from a deteriorating illness. With diabetes, a hamster will usually drink it`s bottle dry within a few hours, pee a lot and go through mood changes. It`s impossible to say if the vets you saw gave you an actual diagnosis without actually testing for it. If her symptoms are merely mass weight loss yet she`s not got the typical signs of having diabetes, it could be another illness altogether. x

Yes I agree, that is why I take her to the specialized vet tomorrow, to make them look at her one more time, before taking the final decision.
And yes those are the normal symptoms, but there are some symptoms not as well known, and some hamsters that -exactly like humans- don't react like most.
I am not saying you are not right. But I know this vet and he is really very good and highly respected.
However.... no matter what Chiela has (in mind that type 1 diabetes is what we believe until proven otherwise) she is dying from it she was always very small and skinny, but it has only been downhill from there.
I have really tried a lot of things, gotten help from Cypher, been reading about diseases in dwarf hamsters, about nutrition, used my experience from the guinea pigs, although they are not the same animal, they are still rodents and so on. The only thing that fits, are the rare symptoms of type 1 diabetes.
I hope to god for other news tomorrow, but honestly i think there is no saving her.
But lets pray for good news.

[racinghamster]

If your plan is to let her go tomorrow that`s only a choice you can make. But personally, I always base euthanasia on the animals behaviour and if he or she has definitely given up. Most of mine have all passed at home thankfully and I`ve only had to ask my vet to put one of my Russian dwarfs to sleep due to a sudden onset of rolling over and obvious discomfort. That was a good many years ago though.

I suppose what I`m saying is....is it worth puting her through numerous vet visits if all they can say is it might be this or that? Would it be better to leave her be and then if she suddenly has an acute episode where you know she`s dying or won`t pull through, to make the decision right away? Or do you think it`s better just to do it now? Ha she stopped eating altogether? Are you feeling it`s more a quality of life thing? x

[cypher]

Be thinking of you both tomorrow Chiela.
All you can do is trust your instincts really, you know if you can trust your vet & you'll know if your little one has had enough or not.
Hoping for a some good news but just follow your heart & know you're doing your best for her.

[Penguin]

Originally Posted by racinghamster

If your plan is to let her go tomorrow that`s only a choice you can make. But personally, I always base euthanasia on the animals behaviour and if he or she has definitely given up. Most of mine have all passed at home thankfully and I`ve only had to ask my vet to put one of my Russian dwarfs to sleep due to a sudden onset of rolling over and obvious discomfort. That was a good many years ago though.

I suppose what I`m saying is....is it worth puting her through numerous vet visits if all they can say is it might be this or that? Would it be better to leave her be and then if she suddenly has an acute episode where you know she`s dying or won`t pull through, to make the decision right away? Or do you think it`s better just to do it now? Ha she stopped eating altogether? Are you feeling it`s more a quality of life thing? x

Im not trying to be rude, but why is it so bad that she would rather have her poor thing put down than watch it starve and suffer? There is no doubt that it's suffering and i dont really think it's fair to make her doubt whether or not her decision is right

[racinghamster]

I was giving her the benefit of the doubt to be honest Penguin, not suggesting she does not go, just questioning some of the reasons. I can`t visually see the hamster, I`m only going by what the descriptors are like everyone else. Makes me wish I hadn`t intervened now. Everyone has their own ways of dealing with end of life issues and I just wasn`t sure this hamster was thin due to diabetes (hasn`t been positively diagnosed) or other health problems. Did the vet check her teeth/mouth for example? Unless the blood or urine is checked, they are guessing. Doesn`t matter how exotic they are.

All I want to say now is she`s your hamster Chiela and only you can know what state she`s in. Why ask for advice on a forum anyway if two good vets are involved? Surely they are far better placed to give an opinion as they are actually seeing this hamster. For the record, I`m not suggesting Chiela doesn`t act on the best interests of her hamster, but giving a view that if the hamster is not lying prostate in it`s cage dying and can still eat/drink and get about, then it`s always worth consideration.

[racinghamster]

This is what I said. I was asking is it better to leave her alone for a bit or is it better to let her go now. Just choices.