Bedding help

[Engel]

Originally Posted by Ria P

Phew! Dandelion causes yellow bellies! I'll keep that in mind, lol.
Could you put a corner toilet filled with woodchips in their peeing spots? I don't know if its more absorbent than paper because Henry has always peed in a hamster toilet. Syrians are quite good at sticking to the same place.

Yes dandelions can be used as a natural dye but I forgot I put one in there (as part of a dried dandelion salad).

Yeh they pee I'm one spot thankfully they just pee a lot and it's becoming quite expensive with the amount of bedding I've gone through (see my reply to sushi). They'll go there regardless of material so I doubt that'll be an issue, it's just finding a cheaper alternative for that area. What are you currently using for bedding/substrate? If you don't mind me asking of course.

[sushi_78]

Originally Posted by Engel

I was thinking about doing sleeping area as kaytee or carefresh and the rest woodshavings. It's cheaper to replace and theyre going through it so quick. I've tried sand, paper pellets litter for cats as well as kaytee and carefresh and they're going through it like nuts. I have the equivalent of 12ft of hamster cage to fill so its a bit mad. In one month my Syrians have gone through 10kg of sand, 18l of cat litter as well as 3x 60l carefresh and 2x 50l of Kaytee. Just because of pee...nothing else yet my robo is yet to get through 1 60l bag of carefresh and 1kg of sand...

It's just substrate that I'm thinking and while pine isn't fantastic, if it's kiln dried then in theory the phenols are a lot less. Isn't the sap that gives off the most toxin? It was the only thing I used when I was a child and my ham lived to 3-4 yrs so I'm using that as a positive.

Also the rescue I got Athena and ghost from were on pine bedding (kiln dried ofc) but I don't want to turn this into a debate as I know it's controversial :/

I don't understand the scientific side of it very well. I switched from aspen to pine last year because it was recommended by at least three gerbil breeders who have had hundreds of gerbils on pine bedding with no problems, and I believe some hamster breeders use it as well. That gave me the confidence to try it, and since I've had no issues yet I feel pretty comfortable continuing to use it.

Have you considered hemp bedding (e.g Aubiose)? I haven't used it but I've read lots of good reviews saying it's good for odour control.

[Engel]

Originally Posted by sushi_78

I don't understand the scientific side of it very well. I switched from aspen to pine last year because it was recommended by at least three gerbil breeders who have had hundreds of gerbils on pine bedding with no problems, and I believe some hamster breeders use it as well. That gave me the confidence to try it, and since I've had no issues yet I feel pretty comfortable continuing to use it.

Have you considered hemp bedding (e.g Aubiose)? I haven't used it but I've read lots of good reviews saying it's good for odour control.

I have thought about it and nearly bought it on several occasions. I wanted to hear what others have to say about it first. A local country store sells aubichick which is done by aubiose except it's a bit finer? Real cheap too. (20kg for £9...gob smacked)

[AmityvilleHams]

The real issue of even using kiln dried pine that not everyone thinks about or acknowledges is that kiln drying does not fully remove phenols and they don't magically disappear once the wood is kiln dried. This isn't a big problem for small wood chews and solid toys etc as there is far less surface area than substrate(wood shavings) and they're less likely to get rehydrated.

I mentioned rehydration because there has been an observance that once urinated on or otherwise moistened, even kiln dried pine substrates still smell like pine. Scientifically that scent comes from the phenols which are what we want to avoid, so clearly there's some sort of reactivation process going on once such products are rehydrated. Obviously in the case of a litter it's less than ideal since this is even intended to get urinated on.

Not everyone likes or dislikes pine. However, it would be dishonest at least to completely ignore observations and the logical science based explanations. If we follow those explanations and think a bit harder on why a kiln dried supposedly "phenol free" or "low phenol" product would have a noticeable pine scent we begin to realize that the process isn't perfect and still has issues to consider. Keep in mind that not everyone is going to have issues with every questionable product, even those with hundreds of pets where applicable!

I do still think that kiln dried pine can be perfectly safe when used appropriately for toys and such. However, a hemp based product would be worth testing. They tend to be less expensive than paper, are more eco friendly, are more sustainable, and most importantly of all - hemp can be naturally mold resistant.

[Jo 17]

I am also using woodchips for cats. Someone recommended it For me. My hamster pee in his house in one corner, so that is the place where I put it and cover it with his own bedding. It does seams to work for me as I do not have to clean his house so often. He still uses his litter box, maybe mine is jus lazy sometimes when pee in the house ( hehehhe ) but if that makes him happy, who am I to judge. Also woodchips are much more absorbent, it turns into thicker sand and it does not small so much. Maybe worth trying

[LunaTheHamster1]

I use aubiose and megazorb. Lasts a long time. Not much odour problems with my female hamsters until they got older and had issues with kidneys etc which caused urine to stink.but both aubiose a nd megazorb were good in my opinion.

[Engel]

Originally Posted by AmityvilleHams

The real issue of even using kiln dried pine that not everyone thinks about or acknowledges is that kiln drying does not fully remove phenols and they don't magically disappear once the wood is kiln dried. This isn't a big problem for small wood chews and solid toys etc as there is far less surface area than substrate(wood shavings) and they're less likely to get rehydrated.

I mentioned rehydration because there has been an observance that once urinated on or otherwise moistened, even kiln dried pine substrates still smell like pine. Scientifically that scent comes from the phenols which are what we want to avoid, so clearly there's some sort of reactivation process going on once such products are rehydrated. Obviously in the case of a litter it's less than ideal since this is even intended to get urinated on.

Not everyone likes or dislikes pine. However, it would be dishonest at least to completely ignore observations and the logical science based explanations. If we follow those explanations and think a bit harder on why a kiln dried supposedly "phenol free" or "low phenol" product would have a noticeable pine scent we begin to realize that the process isn't perfect and still has issues to consider. Keep in mind that not everyone is going to have issues with every questionable product, even those with hundreds of pets where applicable!

I do still think that kiln dried pine can be perfectly safe when used appropriately for toys and such. However, a hemp based product would be worth testing. They tend to be less expensive than paper, are more eco friendly, are more sustainable, and most importantly of all - hemp can be naturally mold resistant.

Didn't think about rehydration to be honest. It's been over 10 years since I used pine (I was a child and didn't know any better) so though now it being kiln dried would remove all the crap which could potentially cause hamsters harm. I haven't read about the rehydration anywhere but to be honest thinking about it now, it makes sense. Now I obviously don't want to turn this thread into a massive debate over pine as it's not what I intended.

I didn't know hemp was naturally mold resistant. Thinking of trying hemp bedding to be honest so when I do I'll do a review

[Engel]

Originally Posted by Jo 17

I am also using woodchips for cats. Someone recommended it For me. My hamster pee in his house in one corner, so that is the place where I put it and cover it with his own bedding. It does seams to work for me as I do not have to clean his house so often. He still uses his litter box, maybe mine is jus lazy sometimes when pee in the house ( hehehhe ) but if that makes him happy, who am I to judge. Also woodchips are much more absorbent, it turns into thicker sand and it does not small so much. Maybe worth trying

Sounds like an idea. Can you link it for me?

[Engel]

Originally Posted by LunaTheHamster1

I use aubiose and megazorb. Lasts a long time. Not much odour problems with my female hamsters until they got older and had issues with kidneys etc which caused urine to stink.but both aubiose a nd megazorb were good in my opinion.

Awesome. Was there much dust or was it pretty much ok? I heard megazorb had a horrible smell to it?

[Ria P]

Originally Posted by Engel

Yes dandelions can be used as a natural dye but I forgot I put one in there (as part of a dried dandelion salad).

Yeh they pee I'm one spot thankfully they just pee a lot and it's becoming quite expensive with the amount of bedding I've gone through (see my reply to sushi). They'll go there regardless of material so I doubt that'll be an issue, it's just finding a cheaper alternative for that area. What are you currently using for bedding/substrate? If you don't mind me asking of course.

I use Kaytee c&c in white and some blue Carefresh for Percy and Kaytee c&c in natural and camo for the other three. Henry has sand in his toilet. I use woodchips in their playpen box because its an area to play in not burrow and go to sleep and they get taken out as soon as they ask to.
I think that you could place ceramic or plastic corner toilets in their pee corners to protect the paper substrate and fill them with woodchips because they're cheaper. You probably have to change the woodchips in their toilets daily.