New hamster sleeping in toilet

[Jamieking86]

Thank you Cypher will put him in the box instead. So after re-measuring where our hamster goes, my partner measured at first and she's bloody terrible, the plaza cage won't fit, the highest we could possibly go without taking him upstairs (which we really don't want to do) is 80cm wide. The Savic hamster heaven cage is 80cmx50x50. Is this suitable? I was originally going to buy this but noticed the plaza was slightly bigger and the same price.

[cypher]

The hamster heaven is only about 35cm high (without the penthouse & tubes) so you would really struggle to get syrian size wheel in, could you fit an 84cm cage in do you think? That's the size of the Alaska which although not as big as the Plaza is taller & you would be able to fit syrian size things in fairly easily.

[Pebbles82]

Just catching up here Cypher has said it all really. I would also remove the tubes and put the wheel next to the house where the tube currently takes up the space

Did they provide blocking off caps for the tubes

I would leave him to settle for at least 3 weeks before moving him to a new cage. It may set the taming back a bit when you move him, but not for long.

If you really like the hamster heaven it can be nice for a Syrian if set up very carefully with the right contents so things don't fill up the cage too much. But - all the plastic stuff, while it looks great, needs to go really - the penthouse and all the tubes removing so you just have the plain cage and also one of the platforms needs to go to fit a wheel in. I would suggest keeping the solid shelf, but even that is a total pain as it has a hump on it.

Our Syrian was in a cage identical to the hamster heaven (but without the tubes and penthouse) and with that solid shelf. He used the inset food bowl as a toilet (because it is in a corner!) and the pee used to run all down the humpy shelf! He also nested in the tiny plastic house on the shelf which is too small for a syrian to nest in so the top kept popping off and it was permanently full of condensation so things went mouldy! So I ended up binning the shelf and getting a large flat roofed house instead, which doubled up as a platform.

If you get the 11" wodent wheel and hang it from the top bars (needs 2 or 3 cable ties to hold the stand right) then that fits - it's the most compact 11" wheel - not too bulky depthwise and only about 30cm height if hung from the top - so you'd have about 4 to 5cm substrate under the wheel.

That is quite shallow for the substrate so the substrate would need to slope away from the wheel and be deeper in the rest of the cage.

I did love the big front door on the cage and how easy it was to interact with our hamster, but fitting a wheel in and having enough substrate and enough room for a decent house and toys was a bit of a pain. However he was happy in it for well over a year.

I think if you like it, then go for it, but use it without the tubes and penthouse and you'd probably need to remove both shelves to fit a decent sized house in (they need to build a large nest and have a house that is open underneath - it's hard to fit a house under the shelf as it dips down underneath - without the shelf being really high up and then the ladder isn't long enough!

So - empty cage, 11" wodent wheel, something like this house (painted with plastikote so you can wipe it clean) and maybe a small additional shelf to sit under - and you'd have enough floorspace for toys and he'd be able to have normal hamster behaviours.

The tubes on cages cause a lot of problems and prevent normal behaviours. They do much better with a tube at floor level/tunnel - rat sized ones. Or a single tube tied to the bars of the cage. I'll link some photos of how I had this cage set up (same cage apart from the bar spacing - mine is the Savic Mickey 2XL mouse version - costs a lot more though!).

The difficulty is - the 11" wodent wheel is about the only wheel that leaves enough space in the cage and they are hard to get hold of. Originally I had the Wood 11" wheel which Zooplus sell - which is also fine, but because the base of the cage is curved it sits quite a way forwards and takes up a fair bit of space.

This is more or less how I had it set up

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This was when I gave him a larger house because he moved his pee area inside the larger house so I gave him a bigger one with enough room for hoards etc, and there wasn't much floorspace left so upgraded him to a 100cm cage. They don't need a house this big though.

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This is how I originally had it set up - the hanging ladder came out asap as he nearly got his leg caught on it (toys with chains are a bit dangerous). There was nowhere to fit a good sized house in due to the design of the shelf. The little house at the front, he ignored completely - because it wasn't big enough or dark enough to build a nest in.
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[Pebbles82]

The top picture, the set up is ok - decent sized house that doubles up as a shelf and is big enough for nesting (the bendy bridge makes it dark inside which they like and makes a ramp up to the roof). But you can see there isn't a lot of floor space for being active and the wheel dominates the cage.

That's ok as long as they get a lot of out of cage time.

Because you end up having to buy things to get it set up without all the plastic stuff, it doesn't necessarily work out cheap.

There are other 80 x 50 cages as well - I'll see if I can find some links.

[Pebbles82]

The Savic Sky is the same cage with different contents. Again best to remove the shelf and tubes but less to block off!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Savic-Hamst...ords=Savic+sky

This is the one I have in the photos (currently used by our Roborovski Hamster). Again I had to remove the metal shelf as not suitable and bin the tubes as they were too small (our hamster got stuck). It has 7mm bar spacing. It's basically the hamster heaven with narrow bar spacing.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Savic-Micke...CJ69SSGB9PHN11

The Barney Alaska and Alexander have tended to be the most popular cages for Syrians sizewise.

I would think about it before making a decision as it's an expensive purchase so needs working out a bit I ended up re-arranging our living room to fit an 80cm cage in - and then wished I'd got a 100cm one because after re-arranging things I could easily fit 100cm!

It took quite a bit of rearranging and I moved a coffee table out of the room to the hall and put a tall bookcase there instead so it made more floorspace but actually preferred my furniture rearrangements afterwards!

But if you have a small room and can only manage an 80 x 50 cage that would be fine but may need some tinkering with to get it set up.

The basics are

1) Enough substrate - minimum 3 to 4" but ideally 5 to 6" in a cage.
2) A wheel big enough they can run with a straight back (straight line from the head) 11" diameter is good.
3) A house/nesting box that is dark inside and big enough to build a really big nest (so they can keep warm in winter) - open underneath so they can bury hoards under the nest. A cardboard shoe box house is good - cut the bottom out, use the lid as a lift off roof and cut a hole for a door. A tunnel entrance/bendy bridge goes down well! Not very glamorous but easy to replace if it gets soiled or chewed.
4) Hidey places on the floor of the cage - eg tunnels, tubes or hideouts
5) A shelf or platform of some kind they can sit on - good place to put a food bowl as well so it doesn't get bedding etc in it, or subside.

[Jamieking86]

Thank you for taking your time writing and helping me. I have decided to go for the hamster heaven cage. I haven't connected the tubes yet and probably won't as they don't come recommended much. I see what you mean about the shelves, the green shelf is quite low and is tricky fitting stuff underneath. I am going to see how it goes for now, and keep his little house from his current cage as he seems to love that, but will eventually get a new one as he will easily outgrow it and will keep all his bedding in the house.

I have put wood shavings down as substrate, then care fresh ultra bedding on top, when we do eventually move him into his new cage i will take the substrate from his old cage and just scatter some on top of the bedding, just so he still has his scent on it and isn't too scared of what's going on. He will also then have a good amount of substrate to dig himself in. This is how i have it set up at the moment. I have managed to fit an 8 and half inch wheel in for now, if/when i take the shelf off i will replace it with an 11" wheel and hook it on the side of the cage. There's still a few toys to come from his old cage when we do move him.

[cypher]

I would have a think about where you are going to put the wheel when you get a larger one & try to set up the cage allowing for that so you don't have to change much, you won't be able to attach it to the bars, I tried that with my 9" wheels but because the base of the cage slopes in so much it just won't work, better to think about that now before you move him really.

You need to resize your photos if you can, it stretches the page & makes it a bit hard to read & reply to posts, there's a thread here on that How to resize photos 2018 or if your photos are on a phone you can just email them to yourself, select small in the email options & save the photo in the email to upload here.p

[Jamieking86]

My apologies about the picture, I did notice it was too big but didn't know how to resize. Will make sure I do that with the wheel.

So my partner spent 5 mins with Frankie in the tub tonight, we put a couple of toys and treats in their with him, he was very active and pooping a lot and having a good sniff of her. Is this normal? Meanwhile I put a little of his substrate in the new cage and let him have a run around in their for 10 mins. He seemed very happy, running around and had a go in his big wheel, first time I've ever seen him use a wheel, then I put him back in his old cage. I'll keep doing this for a few days or so gradually letting him spend more time in his new cage before moving him completely. Would this be the best way to do it?

[Pebbles82]

Wow that was quick All sounds normal - they do poop a lot out of the cage when they're babies and before they're tame - I think it's partly nerves and partly not having got into more grown up habits

Is he in the cage on the photo? I am sure there is a hamster front left corner in the little bowl! I be the has enjoyed exploring.

Yes maybe another go or two. When you move him over people say to move ALL the old bedding across - it really helps. As the new cage is bigger you could leave the bedding in there you have and spread all the old bedding on top of it - pressing it down if it's a bit deep.

The wheel looks good for now - but as Cypher says it can be best to get it set up for the long term- when you start moving things round and changing them in the cage they can get quite stressed and it could set back trust/taming again or make them a bit reclusive.

Adding something new is usually accepted quite well - but taking something out or moving things around really upsets them. I've found they actually get attached to favourite toys! Our hammy loved his little rainbow bridge.
On the other hand you wouldn't need to change much when getting a bigger wheel if you just do the changes at one end - eg remove the green shelf and put the wheel back left corner- then maybe a new house front left corner so it;s not too open - and leave everything else as it is. If you give them a bigger house they usually move in but he'd still like the old house as a hidey place (or food store maybe).

I have some photos somewhere of how to hang a wodent wheel from the top bars. Rodipet still sell the 11" wodent wheel but the postage from Germany is about £8 on top of the wheel cost. The only other place that sells them in the uk is petplanet and they're nearly always out of stock.

When you move him I would try and put things in a similar layout, so his house could maybe do to go under the pink shelf where you have the toilet - same orientation as now. You'll need to wait and see where he chooses as his pee corner - they will only use the litter tray if it's in the corner they choose. But then you can just move the litter tray where he has chosen.

After you move him in he may have the heeby jeebies for a few days and will need leaving alone for 2 or 3 days - although you could talk to him through the bars. If he wants to come out then let him out of course. It could take a good two weeks before he's adjusted to the new cage fully so best not to make any changes in that time.

I am sure he will love the cage.

[Pebbles82]

These are the wodent wheels - all sizes. The 27cm is the 11" one and fits well in the Hamster Heaven. It comes in various different colours. Rodipet also sell spare parts for it - every part there is. They last a long time and are quiet. Most people use google translate to read the web page but Cypher recently linked the page translated into English. I am sure she wouldn't mind linking it again!

https://www.rodipet.de/shop/laufraed...wheel-laufrad/

To hang it from the top bars you remove the stand from the wheel, then slot the spindle of the stand through the top bars and attach the wheel inside the cage. The stand then rests on top of the cage, but it needs holding down with 2 or 3 cable ties so it's stable. I experimented with this and found 3 cable ties in strategic places was just right - but lots of cable ties held it at a funny angle and didn't work.

It's the best 11" wheel for fitting in the cage and not taking up too much space. It might have to go on one end due to the tube caps on top.

Either that or you could get the 11" wood one similar to the one in my photos above. It doesn't stick out too far - that is a silent wheel if that makes a difference. It is quite sturdy and stable but the base really needs to be on the base of the cage and not on top of the substrate so it doesn't fall over.

https://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/small..._wheels/609617

But it does need painting with plastikote to make it wipe clean

This little bottle goes a long way - you would have some left over after doing a wheel. It's water based and virtually odourless. A couple of coats on the wood and running track helps protect it from pee and make it wipe clean. I didn't paint the stand - just the wheel and running track - because our hamster was quite clean

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Plastikote-...stikote+enamel

Anyway - here are the photos of attaching a wodent wheel/wobust wheel to a cage (the wobust wheel is the 12" one - huge and far too big! I had it for a while as our syrian was huge).

These first two are the wodent wheel - shows how it fits in the cage (it is just plonked on top of the substrate there which wouldn't be very stable).

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This one shows the wheel stand attached from the top. Those wheels run way better hung upside down anyway - somehow they just spin better and the stand is out of the way off the floor level as our hammy did get a bit caught up in the stand once when it was at floor level.

Someone on here attached the wood wheel to the top bars! Took the stand off and used large washers - it would need to be done securely though - looks like it is in a Hamster Heaventoo.

suspending wheels



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