Robo Vs. Syrian and Hamster Proofing

[oddlyoblivious]

I think I may have a problem.... I'm addicted to these little fuzz buts.

Next Thursday I will be purchasing 2 40 gallon glass terrariums, in addition to my current bin cage. I worked my rear-end off on said bin cage but it's just not very grownup looking, and I'm also concerned about chewer fuzz buts since I'm strongly considering either a Syrian or Robo's for the other tank.

I've been leaning away from Syrians as they need more space to be happy but I am considering potentially hamster proofing certain rooms so I can give them free reign (under supervision) to supplement their living space. I'm also wanting an animal that will be a little more cuddly than Sirius's personality allows for. (he tolerates it but would rather be exploring or eating)

Any thoughts? I'm not in a rush to get the second animal I'm still in the thinking/planning stage

I'm also strongly considering a natural setup.

[Erin.R]

A robo will not be very cuddly, in general they are a look but don't touch hamster. Also, they actually do need a lot of space as they are tiny but with tons of energy, their little legs can get going so fast they are just a blur Out of the 5 robo's I have had only 1 has ever allowed me to interact with it, I can even pick him up
I don't see wanting more as a problem, but then again I am a super addict lol.

[AmityvilleHams]

A certain species is no guarantee that your hamster is going to be cuddly or not,or even enjoy handling at all.

All hamsters deserve a large cage,regardless of species.In fact,it has been found that even in minimum size cages hamsters aren't necessarily that happy.

If you're so worried about the hamster chewing the cage,then instantly changing to a tank is not necessarily the answer.Yes,tanks stop bar chewing,but there is still the chewing of silicon and other negative behavior caused by spaces that our hamsters are clearly telling us are far too small.

I would strongly suggest a DIY cage,as it provides all the basic needs like burrowing,space,ventilation,etc.In terms of size I would always go above the UK minimum,and forgo the US minimum.It has been proven incorrect time and time again and the only minimum as far as I'm aware with scientific backing is the German minimum,which is not just a size minimum but also a minimum for substrate as well.

A hamster who is not tame probably shouldn't be allowed free roam,but definitely have a cage that is above and beyond any minimum.Minimums are not the end all be all numbers that some act like they are,and a hamster will appreciate more space.

A properly constructed DIY cage would be chew proof,by the way.Overall,a German sized cage with a natural setup would probably suit you very well!

[oddlyoblivious]

Originally Posted by Erin.R

A robo will not be very cuddly, in general they are a look but don't touch hamster. Also, they actually do need a lot of space as they are tiny but with tons of energy, their little legs can get going so fast they are just a blur Out of the 5 robo's I have had only 1 has ever allowed me to interact with it, I can even pick him up
I don't see wanting more as a problem, but then again I am a super addict lol.

Robos are not, no. XD Hence The pros and cons of Syrian's vs. Robos. Also a major plus there are local Syrian breeders in this area, vs. a Pet shop animal who has an uncertain heritage/background, and who I can ask about issues they have noticed health-wise with their lines. Also who know the temperaments of the animals. Robo's are wonderful to watch, Sirius pretty much prefers not to be messed with too much, which is understandable given his experiences.

Originally Posted by AmityvilleHams

A certain species is no guarantee that your hamster is going to be cuddly or not,or even enjoy handling at all.

All hamsters deserve a large cage,regardless of species.In fact,it has been found that even in minimum size cages hamsters aren't necessarily that happy.

If you're so worried about the hamster chewing the cage,then instantly changing to a tank is not necessarily the answer.Yes,tanks stop bar chewing,but there is still the chewing of silicon and other negative behavior caused by spaces that our hamsters are clearly telling us are far too small.

I would strongly suggest a DIY cage,as it provides all the basic needs like burrowing,space,ventilation,etc.In terms of size I would always go above the UK minimum,and forgo the US minimum.It has been proven incorrect time and time again and the only minimum as far as I'm aware with scientific backing is the German minimum,which is not just a size minimum but also a minimum for substrate as well.

A hamster who is not tame probably shouldn't be allowed free roam,but definitely have a cage that is above and beyond any minimum.Minimums are not the end all be all numbers that some act like they are,and a hamster will appreciate more space.

A properly constructed DIY cage would be chew proof,by the way.Overall,a German sized cage with a natural setup would probably suit you very well!

While it's wonderful that you are so concerned and informative, there are a couple of points I didn't include in the first section, but now need to expand on; and there is specific reasoning behind everything that is being planned.

1. Some species are harder to socialize, more skittish than others, and most breeders will know the temperament of a line or a particular animal. So No a specific species will not as you put it guarantee a temperament, but asking on a forum like this usually results in getting good advice on where to look for an animal with said temperament.

2. Some DYI cages are WORSE than tanks when it comes to overall ventilation and require either a fan system or other methods to bring airflow in. I have no issues with DYI Tanks, but they do create some specific issues.

• Firstly the space in which to do said DYI, Secondly the tools needed for any wood or wire adjustments not to mention most hardware stores do not pre-cut glass or poly carbonate sheeting The cost, for such materials is also a consideration, given that 1/4 inch acrylic or tempered glass, or even poly carbonate is quite expensive when you factor in the number of sides needed.
• There are other tools to consider as well, such as drills, or saws, screws, ect. There is also overall appearance to be considered, since this is a set up that will be in my home for years to come. Some of the common ikea hacks (excluding the Detolf which just won't work in my house for reasons I shall explain in a minute) And I would prefer to avoid bars wherever possible.
• My home does not have a wall long enough without windows for a deltof style cage, and it gets extraordinarily cold in the winter so window placement would be detrimental to the health of the animal.

Now for reference a 40 gallon breeder tank has us dimensions of 36" x 18" floor space, which equates to roughly 91 cm X 45 cm meaning total area of 640 sq inches or 4,095 sq cm. A good thousand square centimeters over the RSPCA minimum. Granted not as much height for substrate as I would like but that can be compensated for by dig boxes.

In respect to the German suggestions, they are lovely and if I lived in a larger space, I'd love to be able to do a square meter tank or 3ft by 3ft. But again I do not have the space to house that sized tank in my home in a space where it will not do the animals more harm than good to be placed there. and where it wouldn't block off important rooms such as the bathroom.

I COULD build a cage under my bed I suppose, but that would not provide enough depth for substrate unless I were to build a platform that put my bed at double it's current height of 14 inches, or 35 cm Which again goes into the cost of materials. Meaning wood of a sufficient quality to be used as furniture grade, Glass or equivalent that is either tempered or other wise shatter resistant or else of sufficient thickness not to need additional support or escape risks. Importantly Wood that has not been treated, and is not pine or cedar, as these are harmful to rodents. Particleboard is also out of the question due to the glues involved. (Originally this was the setup I planned for Sirius until I realized it would be too heavy to move and impossible to clean.)


I should also specify that it isn't that I feel that Robos or dwarfs deserve less space, just that they are less of an escape risk than Syrians who have a much longer body and more ability to push against the lid of their cages.

Also There is no plan to let an untamed hamster free range.

With all of that being said I suppose I shouldn't get another animal at all Amity?

[AmityvilleHams]

Originally Posted by oddlyoblivious

Robos are not, no. XD Hence The pros and cons of Syrian's vs. Robos. Also a major plus there are local Syrian breeders in this area, vs. a Pet shop animal who has an uncertain heritage/background, and who I can ask about issues they have noticed health-wise with their lines. Also who know the temperaments of the animals. Robo's are wonderful to watch, Sirius pretty much prefers not to be messed with too much, which is understandable given his experiences.



While it's wonderful that you are so concerned and informative, there are a couple of points I didn't include in the first section, but now need to expand on; and there is specific reasoning behind everything that is being planned.

1. Some species are harder to socialize, more skittish than others, and most breeders will know the temperament of a line or a particular animal. So No a specific species will not as you put it guarantee a temperament, but asking on a forum like this usually results in getting good advice on where to look for an animal with said temperament.

2. Some DYI cages are WORSE than tanks when it comes to overall ventilation and require either a fan system or other methods to bring airflow in. I have no issues with DYI Tanks, but they do create some specific issues.

• Firstly the space in which to do said DYI, Secondly the tools needed for any wood or wire adjustments not to mention most hardware stores do not pre-cut glass or poly carbonate sheeting The cost, for such materials is also a consideration, given that 1/4 inch acrylic or tempered glass, or even poly carbonate is quite expensive when you factor in the number of sides needed.
• There are other tools to consider as well, such as drills, or saws, screws, ect. There is also overall appearance to be considered, since this is a set up that will be in my home for years to come. Some of the common ikea hacks (excluding the Detolf which just won't work in my house for reasons I shall explain in a minute) And I would prefer to avoid bars wherever possible.
• My home does not have a wall long enough without windows for a deltof style cage, and it gets extraordinarily cold in the winter so window placement would be detrimental to the health of the animal.

Now for reference a 40 gallon breeder tank has us dimensions of 36" x 18" floor space, which equates to roughly 91 cm X 45 cm meaning total area of 640 sq inches or 4,095 sq cm. A good thousand square centimeters over the RSPCA minimum. Granted not as much height for substrate as I would like but that can be compensated for by dig boxes.

In respect to the German suggestions, they are lovely and if I lived in a larger space, I'd love to be able to do a square meter tank or 3ft by 3ft. But again I do not have the space to house that sized tank in my home in a space where it will not do the animals more harm than good to be placed there. and where it wouldn't block off important rooms such as the bathroom.

I COULD build a cage under my bed I suppose, but that would not provide enough depth for substrate unless I were to build a platform that put my bed at double it's current height of 14 inches, or 35 cm Which again goes into the cost of materials. Meaning wood of a sufficient quality to be used as furniture grade, Glass or equivalent that is either tempered or other wise shatter resistant or else of sufficient thickness not to need additional support or escape risks. Importantly Wood that has not been treated, and is not pine or cedar, as these are harmful to rodents. Particleboard is also out of the question due to the glues involved. (Originally this was the setup I planned for Sirius until I realized it would be too heavy to move and impossible to clean.)


I should also specify that it isn't that I feel that Robos or dwarfs deserve less space, just that they are less of an escape risk than Syrians who have a much longer body and more ability to push against the lid of their cages.

Also There is no plan to let an untamed hamster free range.

With all of that being said I suppose I shouldn't get another animal at all Amity?

Hmmm I've seen another thing being done that might be worth looking into!There have been hamster owners who took the sides off of two tanks and joined them together.That is another very good option,which is done well could look extremely nice.

In terms of escape risks,a secure lid with the right size mesh and a hamster regardless of species eliminates that risk.Just laying a lid onto something isn't going to work,it takes strong security measures to actually keep a lid on.

Regardless,the absolute largest cage you can get is what you should get.If you can get a cage that is bigger than a 40 gallon breeder,get it instead.

Nobody is telling you not to get an animal.It's ultimately up to you what you do,we do not control you or own you or anything.If you shoved a hamster into a Critter Trail for example,it's not like we could necessarily make you not do that could we?Of course not.You have your own free will,and at the end of the day I'm merely giving advice.What you do with it,is up to you.

[oddlyoblivious]

Again, results in the no wall long enough that doesn't have a window. I have a 1 bedroom apartment and rather large pieces of hand me down furniture. When I move out after I get married we'll have more space, but that's still a few years down the road. Right now the largest I can get is the 40 gallon breeder, unless I have the hamster cage in bed with me.


I did actually research the options, given the space available. Sirius's cage upgrade gives him quite a few more inches, it fits on the one wall that is suitable for hamster habitation (as all others have windows or the main front door.)

Down the road I do plan on upgrading, but at the moment I would like the companionship.

[AmityvilleHams]

Originally Posted by oddlyoblivious

Again, results in the no wall long enough that doesn't have a window. I have a 1 bedroom apartment and rather large pieces of hand me down furniture. When I move out after I get married we'll have more space, but that's still a few years down the road. Right now the largest I can get is the 40 gallon breeder, unless I have the hamster cage in bed with me.


I did actually research the options, given the space available. Sirius's cage upgrade gives him quite a few more inches, it fits on the one wall that is suitable for hamster habitation (as all others have windows or the main front door.)

Down the road I do plan on upgrading, but at the moment I would like the companionship. Of course if sticking a hamster in a 40 gallon breeder is equivalent to shoving them into a critter trail in your mind clearly it's inhumane.

Okay,for now definitely I would say a 40 gallon breeder should be okay.If you do want a cuddly pet though,perhaps consider rats instead as they do tend to be more on the cuddly companion side of rodents!

Either way,just provide the absolute best care that you can

[oddlyoblivious]

I apologize for being rude. That was bad behavior on my part. Misread the tone, which was entirely on me. That is the plan!

[AmityvilleHams]

Originally Posted by oddlyoblivious

I apologize for being rude. That was bad behavior on my part. Misread the tone, which was entirely on me. That is the plan!

It's okay We all have our moments and get confused and all that,and with an online forum it's to be expected to misunderstand things!

[Pebbles82]

A 40 gallon tank would be great for a Syrian! Set up can make the most of floor space as well. I think Syrians can be cuddly, if you get a lazy one lol! It's a bit of a big generalization but girls tend to be more active than boys (unless you have a yellow one apparently and they're supposed to be a bit wild!) Taming really helps and it is probably easier to tame a Syrian. I would love to have a Robo and a Syrian - best of both worlds.

Getting a Syrian from a breeder sounds good as they will probably have been handled from birth and be easy to tame. Our Syrian was from a pet shop and I don't think he had ever been handled - they used to get him out in a tube. He was wild lol - unhandleable. It took two months of bathtub taming before we could pick him up, but boy when it happened it happened instantly! Once we could pick him up he was SO handleable. In terms of being cuddly I find it depends what time of night we get him out. Late at night or early evening he is quite active and doesn't want to sit for a cuddle, but between 8 and 10pm when he's a bit dopey, he is happy to sit for a cuddle Also if something has recently changed in his cage (eg a bit of cleaning) he won't sit for a cuddle and wants to get straight back to his cage to guard it! But mostly he is quite chilled.

In terms of hamster-proofing a room - it's a great idea to have a room for free-ranging. I can't manage it in ours as it's an old house with floorboards and although I blocked up any holes I could find (eg where radiator pipes go down), the first time we had our hamster in the room he headed straight for the gas fire Like a lemming he wanted to get up inside it! It is a non working one and disconnected but even so he could have got stuck up there. So a bedroom is probably better than a room with a fire or chimney and solid floors are better than wood floors. Bathrooms aren't good usually as there are always gaps a ham can find, where pipes go down or the toilet pipe goes out, and one member's hamster got under the bath and disappeared into the wall (she did get him out but it was a few anxious days).

So if you have a bedroom, and concrete floors, it's probably fine under supervision (to make sure they don't climb the curtains and jump from a height). You might need to find a few things to block off gaps under doors and so on as they go straight for any gap they find lol.

Our first hamster, many years ago, was free ranging. I cringe to think of the little rotostak cage he had (3 round things on top of each other) but it was left open all the time and he developed his own routine. He'd come out about 6 or 7pm and run all over the room (he regularly climbed the curtains and we'd see his little head pop up at the top of them - didn't know it was dangerous back then!) He must have had a charmed life. We had to keep an eye out for tv cables and so on and keep him away from there, and you have to make sure you know where they are so they don't get accidentally trodden on. But he ran around the living room every night for about two years. He was never tamed but he did bond with me and used to sit on the back of my dressing gown while I walked round the room lol. Although maybe that was just a clever plan to get out of the room as I felt something dragging as I walked upstairs one night and there he was on the end of my dressing gown

He would go back in the cage of his own accord around 11pm and then run in his wheel all night (noisily).

I would love to do that again now if we had a ham-proof room, but as our kitchen and living room are open plan and there are too many nooks and crannies upstairs I daren't risk it. Some people use the hallway. But you do need things to block the bottom of doors

Diy cages are great and they are a great option, but we all have different preferances. Some people would only ever use cages, preferring the greater ventilation and set up options. Some prefer tanks, some prefer diy cages, some like bin cages. Some people make diy cages that are terrible! Or unsafe. The detolf is very popular as a diy cage on here, if people have the space for it.