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Old 07-18-2020, 05:14 AM   #1
Engel
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Question Shunamite guidelines

Hi all. Since owning rats Ive been introduced to a different diet which can be used for many different species but thought I'd see what others think before putting it into practice.

I feed my rats using the shunamite guidelines.
This diet includes:

- 50% commercial mix.
I mix 2 different foods for this.

-25% processed grains.
Low sugar cereal, rice and pasta is used.

-10% protein
Mealworms and shrimp

-10% herbs and veg
Mixed herbs, dried veggies (beetroot and parsnip at the moment but aiming to increase variety).

Nori (seaweed that you wrap sushi in)

-5% seeds and nuts
Use seeds that aren't found in the base mix like chia, sesame, hemp seeds, pine nuts and Brazil nuts for example.

Fresh veggies served daily.

Now, the rats have wet meals throughout the week to boost protein too as they're still young but when they're adults this'll drop to one meal a week. With the hamsters im thinking of doing a small wet meal once a week which will consist of wet cat food (fish based) with spirulina, some coconut oil and multivitamin and mineral powder mixed in to ensure they're getting everything they need.

Technically aren't hamsters omnivores? Eating grains, seeds, vegetation and meat/bugs. So in theory it should work? What are everyone's thoughts?
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Old 07-18-2020, 06:03 AM   #2
cypher
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Default Re: Shunamite guidelines

I don’t know much about rats generally but am quite familiar with this from all my research when first making my own ham mix.
From what I’ve read it does seem to work well for rats but even though both are omnivores hamsters do have different nutritional needs so I don’t think you can really apply the same thing.
Personally I can’t really see any reason to give the processed grains to a ham unless it’s something given as an occasional treat.
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Old 07-18-2020, 12:32 PM   #3
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Default Re: Shunamite guidelines

Quote:
Originally Posted by cypher View Post
I don’t know much about rats generally but am quite familiar with this from all my research when first making my own ham mix.
From what I’ve read it does seem to work well for rats but even though both are omnivores hamsters do have different nutritional needs so I don’t think you can really apply the same thing.
Personally I can’t really see any reason to give the processed grains to a ham unless it’s something given as an occasional treat.
The processed grains are to add vitamins as well as variety

I was thinking about adapting it to suit hamsters. Idk how though
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Old 07-18-2020, 01:03 PM   #4
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Default Re: Shunamite guidelines

I imagine rats are adapted to a diet higher in processed grains than hamsters, having historically lived among near humans and eaten human scraps. Rats are also much more omnivorous than hamsters. An appropriate hamster diet would have all the same food groups, but in much different ratios, and the grains should be unprocessed. For example, hamsters would need far more than 5% seeds.
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Old 07-18-2020, 05:46 PM   #5
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Default Re: Shunamite guidelines

I would also have serious doubts about adding nori to a hamster diet. It isn't something they would naturally eat and as such they may not be able to digest it very well if at all, and it may cause serious harm to add such foods that could throw off the mineral balance(as well as add unnecessary sodium even if naturally occurring).

When Rodipet is so easy to get in the UK and a large enough portion of Europe I can't really justify trying to mix your own diet for hamsters. Rodipet is biologically appropriate and extremely high quality. Rodipet is a completely whole food based diet, no synthetic additives at all(even the vitamins and minerals are ones naturally in the foods themselves). This style diet plan however is not only incredibly risky due to the potential for major imbalances but also it just isn't anywhere near as healthy as Rodipet due to the likelihood of very high amounts of highly processed foods.

As an extra side note, it's important to keep in mind that processed grains really aren't as healthy as high quality whole grains. The vitamins and minerals added to many processed grains are not always identical to the naturally occurring ones, nor do they even replace the full amount that is actually lost due to refining.

There are sometimes very specific processed grains which aren't too bad for treats. These aren't necessarily that good for an actual main diet ingredient, however, the processed grains actually appropriate in certain situations as a treat/treat mix ingredient would be those that don't have any additives at all(not even natural ones).

If you really wanted to make something nice for your hamsters, you could potentially try making a treat mix. For maximum nutritional benefits stick with minimally processed whole foods when possible or as mentioned certain processed grains if you really must for texture variance(again, ones with no additives of any kind) and as many safe and species appropriate ingredients not found in the main diet for nutritional variety and enrichment as possible.
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Old 07-18-2020, 11:17 PM   #6
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Default Re: Shunamite guidelines

I did forget to say that giving the hams a wet meal of cat food once a week would be fine for younger hams, older hams don’t need the extra protein & too much protein for older hams ca be problematic. A little spirulina sprinkled over is ok too. I wouldn’t give them coconut oil. Giving multivitamin & minerals once a week won’t really help, they need to get those nutrients daily so they must be present in the main mix & giving extra could unbalance things & provide an excess of somethings which can be harmful.
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Old 07-22-2020, 09:53 AM   #7
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Default Re: Shunamite guidelines

Quote:
Originally Posted by sushi_78 View Post
I imagine rats are adapted to a diet higher in processed grains than hamsters, having historically lived among near humans and eaten human scraps. Rats are also much more omnivorous than hamsters. An appropriate hamster diet would have all the same food groups, but in much different ratios, and the grains should be unprocessed. For example, hamsters would need far more than 5% seeds.
Yes they are and fair point I see what you mean now.
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Old 07-22-2020, 10:01 AM   #8
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Default Re: Shunamite guidelines

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmityvilleHams View Post
I would also have serious doubts about adding nori to a hamster diet. It isn't something they would naturally eat and as such they may not be able to digest it very well if at all, and it may cause serious harm to add such foods that could throw off the mineral balance(as well as add unnecessary sodium even if naturally occurring).

When Rodipet is so easy to get in the UK and a large enough portion of Europe I can't really justify trying to mix your own diet for hamsters. Rodipet is biologically appropriate and extremely high quality. Rodipet is a completely whole food based diet, no synthetic additives at all(even the vitamins and minerals are ones naturally in the foods themselves). This style diet plan however is not only incredibly risky due to the potential for major imbalances but also it just isn't anywhere near as healthy as Rodipet due to the likelihood of very high amounts of highly processed foods.

As an extra side note, it's important to keep in mind that processed grains really aren't as healthy as high quality whole grains. The vitamins and minerals added to many processed grains are not always identical to the naturally occurring ones, nor do they even replace the full amount that is actually lost due to refining.

There are sometimes very specific processed grains which aren't too bad for treats. These aren't necessarily that good for an actual main diet ingredient, however, the processed grains actually appropriate in certain situations as a treat/treat mix ingredient would be those that don't have any additives at all(not even natural ones).

If you really wanted to make something nice for your hamsters, you could potentially try making a treat mix. For maximum nutritional benefits stick with minimally processed whole foods when possible or as mentioned certain processed grains if you really must for texture variance(again, ones with no additives of any kind) and as many safe and species appropriate ingredients not found in the main diet for nutritional variety and enrichment as possible.
I thought nori as it's high protein. Hamsters actually need more protein than rats hence why I mentioned it. (Adult rats need roughly 12-14% protein although in some circumstances it could be as low as 5%! ) I totally understand where you're coming from.

I completely forgot about rodipet *facepalm*.

I know there's also getzoo. One I have heard mentioned is bunny dwarf hamster dream? Has anyone got an opinion on that? I'm doing a zooplus order soon and I notice they sell it on there so thought I'd ask.

With rats the use of processed grains is to get the vitamins that may be difficult to get elsewhere. As they've adapted to live wherever humans are we are able to do this.
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Old 07-22-2020, 10:26 AM   #9
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Default Re: Shunamite guidelines

I use Bunny Dwarf Hamster Dream for my Robo. I tried Rodipet Dwarf too, but found she preferred Bunny. Rodipet Dwarf has lots of dried vegetables which she never ate. It does need some protein supplementation. I use freeze dried chicken which I get from Zooplus.

I think the Rodipet Hybrid mix may be more suitable for Robos than the Dwarf mix because it has more seeds and less vegetables, but I haven't tried it.
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Old 07-22-2020, 10:58 AM   #10
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Default Re: Shunamite guidelines

Quote:
Originally Posted by sushi_78 View Post
I use Bunny Dwarf Hamster Dream for my Robo. I tried Rodipet Dwarf too, but found she preferred Bunny. Rodipet Dwarf has lots of dried vegetables which she never ate. It does need some protein supplementation. I use freeze dried chicken which I get from Zooplus.

I think the Rodipet Hybrid mix may be more suitable for Robos than the Dwarf mix because it has more seeds and less vegetables, but I haven't tried it.
My current robo doesn't eat many dried veggies but likes some fresh every few days. Niko loves mealworms and shrimp however he's starting to show signs of an old ham now. I know he's more than a yr old. So I won't be changing his food at all. Im thinking about future dwarf hamsters. Glad to here bunny dwarf is alright
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