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Old 10-24-2019, 07:59 PM   #11
babysecretyoyo
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Default Re: Roborovski hamster homemade food mix

Will definitely worth give it a try, thank you for such a complete answer <3
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Old 10-24-2019, 08:04 PM   #12
babysecretyoyo
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Default Re: Roborovski hamster homemade food mix

Do I swap hamster food immediately complete different when his jar is empty or need to mix in gradually?
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Old 10-24-2019, 10:13 PM   #13
AmityvilleHams
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Default Re: Roborovski hamster homemade food mix

I know it's common for people to recommend gradual transitions, but I don't consider them completely necessary. The concept backing that up is that poor quality foods and general improper diets don't allow good gut health anyways, so digestive upset can occur at any time with poor diets and such. The best prevention for that is to avoid any extra stress whenever you can while changing foods(I would still suggest removing and replacing the hoard with the new food to be sure that's the only food your hamster will be eating), and if digestive upset does occur luckily it's often very mild and can typically be fixed with extra fiber.

In the hamster community I've seen people suggest plain old fashioned(not quick cooking or those with any additives just to be as safe as possible)oats, whether you give them whole or make some sort of porridge(no dairy and such added). You could also use pureed plain pumpkin(no added ingredients, it should be pumpkin and nothing else), or a similar product if you want to go pureed for time saving benefits would be the same sort of product but with safe types of squash instead.
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Old 10-25-2019, 04:52 AM   #14
stan
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Default Re: Roborovski hamster homemade food mix

I'd just like to clarify, I don't mix Rodipet and Harry Hamster together for cost saving. I mix it together because Harry Hamster is a good quality, and well balanced food for Hamsters. My personal opinion is the Rodipet Syrian food is a little low on Protein without supplements, and my hamster does not enjoy insects. So the higher protein in HH is good for him. He also really enjoys all the bits of Harry Hamster. From the mix of the two he only leaves the herbs, which come from the Rodipet mix. The dyes listed in HH are widely known as safe for consumption.

I appreciate Amity prefers all organic food for their hamsters, and many people do (even for their own food). I personally think the risks of HH are low compared to the nutritional benefit. I wouldn't exclusively eat organic food myself, though.

Anyway, I'm sure your hammy will love the Rodipet food!
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Old 10-25-2019, 03:11 PM   #15
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Default Re: Roborovski hamster homemade food mix

I will admit that the Rodipet Syrian junior version(and most likely the senior version as well) is too low in protein(which I was going to mention at first but thought it'd distract from the main thread topic). However, they have the teddy hamster junior food you could use on its own or mixed in a suitable ratio to get a proper protein level without resorting to Harry Hamster(which again is not a high quality food).

Some things are labelled safe for consumption without being necessarily fully safe. Pet food standards tend to be lower than human food ones as well, but ultimately the risks of artificial dyes in particular are no small matter and they really should be avoided at all costs. It isn't to say you can't feed things that aren't organic in addition, but when things include known harmful dyes(yes, they are harmful, but not everyone sees negative results- and not everyone sees negative results of a lot of things but that does not make them good choices).

A lot of people choose to smoke cigarettes and they're known to cause cancer. People should obviously not smoke cigarettes, but they still do. Does that mean we should smoke cigarettes just because not everyone who smokes them dies of cancer? No, we should not.

At the end of the day Rodipet is an excellent choice in general, if you choose the right foods that they make.
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Old 10-26-2019, 01:33 AM   #16
AprilPearl
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Default Re: Roborovski hamster homemade food mix

Just with respect to the Harry Hamster (which I have fed to my hamster - who is two weeks shy of 2 years and 6 months old - since I got him at 5 weeks old and also to all my past hamsters): a while back I noticed that the HH packaging said it contained artificial dyes which concerned me at the time. I emailed the manufacturers to ask what dyes they used and they told me that:

“this product contains ‘E110’ (an orange colourant) and E102/E131 (combined to produce a green colourant)”

Turns out that neither of those dyes are dangerous (it’s other artificial dyes which have been linked to cancer) so I still feed HH. Hope this helps someone
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Last edited by AprilPearl; 10-26-2019 at 01:41 AM.
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Old 10-26-2019, 03:32 AM   #17
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Default Re: Roborovski hamster homemade food mix

E102(yellow 5) and E110(yellow 6) are both pretty commonly known to have links to cancer. In fact, they're often listed with the notorious red 40!

However, the effects of food dyes go beyond cancer. There are definitely reasons to avoid the dyes with very specific exceptions(ie when used in medicine for sick hamsters).

E110/yellow 6 in particular is clearly known to have links to cancer. They're not always the most obvious links, but they're certainly there.

A list of some E110 effects:
Chromosome damage and DNA fragmentation(which increases risk of cancer)
Liver damage(through elevated liver enzymes)
Kidney damage(through elevated serum creatinine and urea)
Sperm damage(not a concern for hamster owners, but definitely something breeders should be thinking about)
Suppressed glutathione levels(which interferes with the body's capacity to deal with toxic chemicals)
Suppressed superoxide dismutase activity(which interferes with an enzyme that protects cells from being damaged)
Elevated triglyceride levels(basically leading to excessive fat buildups in the bloodstream)

Xenoestrogenic effects were also something I found linked with yellow 6/e110. I think parts of this particular effect are important to the average hamster owner, but not all of them. You may be asking yourself "What the heck is a xenoestrogen and why does it even matter?", but interestingly enough a lot of us have probably seen or heard something about similar chemicals(other endocrine disruptors), and in particular most likely you've noticed the mention of BPA.

Xenoestrogens in particular are linked to reproduction deficits(clearly a breeder orientated concern). A particular xenoestrogen(DES, or Diethylstilbestrol, and yes I had to copy and paste the spelling because despite having a bit of previous knowledge on it it is not an easy word to remember) was proven to inhibit estrogen production by hamster ovarian cells. Sadly, it was part of a drug prescribed to many pregnant women for many years(from 1938-1971 according to the CDC)and it produced devastating effects.

As a another separate point before I cover the effects E102, keep in mind that throughout history there have been endless things considered safe. Those things aren't always safe, and sometimes people stand up and say they aren't and often get criticized or even in some cases outright shunned from communities(like one doctor who was an early believer in proper hygiene but was ultimately shunned for his beliefs even if later on those same beliefs were proven to be true and are now standard practice). Sometimes, it can take years or even decades or centuries before these changes happen.

Now onto the effects of e102/yellow 5:
Genotoxicity(similarly to yellow 6/e110's chromosome damage and DNA fragmentation as it also leads to an increase in the chance of cancer)
And, just as with e110, it's xenoestrogenic.

There are similar effects from many dyes including e110 and e102 that are seen which include potential increase in allergic reactions, hives, eczema, and even a potential increase in hyperactivity and aggressive behavior.

While it is hard to find as much information on e133/blue v/Patent Blue V it is also known to cause potential DNA damage. Because of that, yes, it is also capable of increasing the risk of cancer.

Interestingly one of the big factors for why we may not necessarily connect these dyes and Harry Hamster in general to potential cancer in hamsters is that from what I could find it does seem like the three year mark was typically where rodents did develop cancer.

That doesn't mean there's no other effects we could be seeing but not clearly connecting properly, since I've definitely seen a lot of people mentioning kidney problems in general which is hypothetically connected. It's not guaranteed, but it's reasonable knowing that most people probably aren't going to be able or even willing to invest the time and money it would take to fully connect those dots

It's also worth mentioning when it comes to kidneys in particular that menadione also seems to be included in Harry Hamster, which is another questionable additive. It is something I wouldn't be as concerned about on its own in a completely dye free and otherwise high quality treat for example, but daily exposure to menadione isn't very good(it is known to increase likelihood of and even potentially cause kidney damage, among other things, and not just in dogs where it's more widely known).

Hopefully this doesn't end up being too much of an information overload for everyone, but sometimes you try to focus on the very basics and it spirals into much more!
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Old 10-26-2019, 04:12 AM   #18
AprilPearl
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Default Re: Roborovski hamster homemade food mix

Hmm I googled E110, E102 and E131 and I couldn’t find anything which mentioned side effects like those (especially cancer) but it’s possible I didn’t dig far enough.
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Old 10-26-2019, 04:45 AM   #19
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Default Re: Roborovski hamster homemade food mix

It can take quite a bit of digging to find these things out. I've been looking into all the issues with similar ingredients for at least a couple years now, and it is difficult to navigate the information at times plus even after years I'm still learning more!
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Old 10-26-2019, 07:04 AM   #20
stan
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Default Re: Roborovski hamster homemade food mix

You don't have to dig very far in scientific literature to find out that >80% of lung cancers are caused by smoking.

Digging into scientific literature about colourings it becomes clear that links with those problems listed above are tenuous at best. Even the most common link is with hyperactivity in children, and then that it is not seen to be a clear link by most research. Coupled with that, most countries that banned the colourings have lifted the bans.

To each their own though. You feed you hammy what you are happy with, and I will do the same with mine.
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