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Old 11-17-2017, 04:26 PM   #1
Zazwaki
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Question Hamster Food?

Recently, its been brought to my attention the food (Kaytee Forti-Diet Pro Health)I've feed Georgia is very low quality. The reason why I got it in the first place because of the percentages(protein 20.0%, crude fat 4.0%, crude fiber 12.0%). Learning of the quality of the food, makes me worry that it could had been a variable contributing to the tumors.
Does this means all Kaytee food is bad? I have timothy hay along with some treats of dried fruit.

When I got Petunia(robo), I also bought a new bag of it as I was almost out, but now I don't know what to do with it since its bad for her. Its still unopened and a little too late to return it as I bought it the beginning of this month.
She's currently on the food the pet supplies plus store feed her, the dispensable food. Did a quick skim of the analysis and the protein is 13% I believe.

What is the best food to feed hamsters within the ideal percentage range? Preferably pellet base as I want to avoid selective eating. She even does it with her current food, not liking the brown stick things.
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Old 11-17-2017, 05:40 PM   #2
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Default Re: Hamster Food?

Their hay might be decent quality,but the dried fruit tends to have unsafe or at least very unhealthy additives.Hay isn't necessary for hamsters though.I personally wouldn't even bother with their hay though,as there are other higher quality brands

If you were willing to put in more work,money,and go through the labor of formulation there is one potential alternative I could think of.It wouldn't be a completely pelleted diet,however if you could source a completely hamster safe high quality dog food that isn't too high protein that could be the base of a mix along with carefully mixing grains and other foods to further lower the protein and add the variety that is crucial for a healthy and appropriate diet.

While the diet mentioned above would be quite difficult and intimidating,it would let you have a safer diet.There are two decent premade diets on the market for hamsters in the US,both by the same brand and neither are pelleted.However,despite being made in the US with apparently safe ingredients the sources of ingredients aren't completely known and that is where more problems come in.Because of that,certain ingredients(including vitamins and minerals)could be sourced from China which is incredibly risky at best

One example of a good brand for the dry dog food base would be Halo.While their dry dog foods aren't a very good choice for dogs,some could work fairly well for hamsters or rats if mixed properly.Foods shouldn't include artificial dyes,artificial flavors,harmful preservatives(BHA/BHT/ethoxyquin),propylene glycol,sulfur dioxide,unspecified biproducts(digest,derivatives,biproduct meals,meat and bone meals,etc),dextrose(or sorbitol,maltodextrin,sucrose,etc),or any other unsafe ingredients.

I would aim for a total protein for the main diet around 16-18%.
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Old 11-17-2017, 08:24 PM   #3
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Default Re: Hamster Food?

Ok, I'll throw out those treats as I had them a while then. Still not sure what I'll do with the unopened bag of the Kaytee food though.
Seems like the vegan bag of the Halo dog food looks somewhat good to me. Would it be fine to mix it with her current food(I think its this one, but have to go back to the store to be sure) or is there a recommended hamster food to use?

And what would be mixing the food rational?
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Old 11-18-2017, 12:49 AM   #4
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Default Re: Hamster Food?

I wouldn't use the current mix.I'd stick to sourcing ingredients instead of buying a hamster mix,since even the better brands don't have information about their ingredient sourcing.

Protein and other nutrient percentages would be determined through weight and calories(percentage calculators can be found online which makes it a bit easier).As for the unopened Kaytee food,I'd just throw it out.

Make sure the diet isn't strictly vegan or even vegetarian though!Pure Bites freeze dried dog and cat treats have some great options and aren't sourced from China,and they tend to be one of the most common freeze dried treats in pet stores.
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Old 11-18-2017, 01:41 AM   #5
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Default Re: Hamster Food?

I really don't recommend sourcing individual ingredients to make your own hamster mix unless you have a really good understanding of hamster nutrition & are prepared to do a lot of research & calculations to get the mix right.
I know it can be hard to find a decent mix in the US but unless you really know what you're doing & are prepared to put in a lot of work then attempting to make your own mix could do more harm than good.
With a robo you don't have to worry about dried fruits being in the mix (seems very common in the uS) as you do with some species so I would find the best mix you can & stick with that, you may need to add a little extra protein, mealworms are fine for that.
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Old 11-19-2017, 08:35 PM   #6
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Default Re: Hamster Food?

I agree with Cypher on making my own mix, as I don't want to do serious damage.

Looking closely on the back of the kaytee treat bag I have, the only ingredients stated is raisins, dehydrated apple, dried cranberries, and dried blueberry. I've been a little hesitant on getting mealworms due to being scare of bugs, but I'll try overcome it for Petunia(if she likes them). As it would be easier and more consistent.

Also recently discover Viovet and I don't mind having to order online. Heard about the selective science food, but also found four other hamster foods that looks good to me.
-Harry hamster tasty mix
-Mr. Johnson's Advance Hamster and Gerbil
-Burgess Dwarf Hamster Harvest
-Burgess Hamster and Gerbil
Don't really know the main differences between the two Burgess besides one being for dwarfs and not sure if robos fall under that category.

Thinking about just mixing her current food with one of those foods or would it be better to mix two of those foods?
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Old 11-19-2017, 09:59 PM   #7
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Default Re: Hamster Food?

Harry Hamster does include artificial dyes(not specifically stated anywhere but has been confirmed regardless)and Mr. Johnson's ingredients are too vague to be safe.Burgess could technically be considered a decent option,however it still does have the problem of potentially sourcing vitamins/minerals or other ingredients from China(incredibly risky at best).

I'm currently waiting for a response from Higgins and Oxbow in regards to ingredient sourcing,but without that information it's really hard to say that any food is 100% safely sourced.

As far as mealworms go,the dried ones do tend to be sourced from China.There might be an odd reptile brand for canned mealworms that wouldn't be from China,but it's a lot easier to find freeze dried shrimp for example that isn't sourced from China.

The Kaytee treats don't exactly have a true country of origin or where they're manufactured(they include the company's location,but that's not very helpful)so I wouldn't use them.

When it comes to DIY diets,issues tend to come when things just aren't properly calculated.If you were to calculate nutrients and not just throw things together,it would certainly be possible to avoid problem.Even a premade diet can have flaws,for example extremely precise nutrition is not guaranteed every time as you can have slightly different amounts of certain ingredients sometimes(or even a complete lack of those ingredients!).

With that all being said,I've started a small project that should turn out quite helpful for this situation.I can't guarantee an exact timing for when it would be done,but if there's any way for me to get it all done in less than 24 hours I will do so.
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Old 11-19-2017, 11:46 PM   #8
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Default Re: Hamster Food?

Do try to get over your fear of bugs mealworms are a great supplement for dwarf hams & they generally go mad for them, if you don't like handling them you can always use some tweezers or something, you only give dried ones btw not live1

If you can get food from viovet that's great, of the ones you listed the Burgess dwarf hamster harvest would be the best option, science selective pellets are a good complete food but I wouldn't recommend just using those alone, there is a real lack of enrichment with just a pellet food but you could combine the two.
You might find that the grass pellets in the Burgess dwarf hamster harvest get left but most hams tend to ignore those & it doesn't really do any harm other than that they usually really enjoy that mix.

The reason I don't recommend mixing your own unless you can put in all the work, research & calculations needed is because I do it myself & know what's involved!
Amity if you do decide to try making your own mix I'd be very interested to hear all about it.

ETA sorry I forgot to say about the other mixes you mentioned, I definitely don't recommend the Mr Johnsons one as it does have some dubious ingredients, Harry Hamster is more suited to syrians, dwarf hams (including your robo) do better with & prefer a mix that contains more in the way of small seeds rather than the larger biscuit type bits you will find in HH, the same goes for the two Burgess mixes, there is a difference between them & it's definitely better to go for the dwarf mix.
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Last edited by cypher; 11-20-2017 at 02:22 AM.
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Old 11-20-2017, 02:08 PM   #9
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Default Re: Hamster Food?

For a bit of an update on whether or not Higgins and Oxbow source from China,Higgins unfortunately does source from China in some cases.Oxbow however only sources ingredients outside the US in the case of the Timothy Club products,and while their hamster/gerbil pellets aren't exactly a great diet on their own they do have potential in the right dietary combination to be useful.

In regards to the project(aka my sort of DIY mix)I'll probably end up posting a thread once everything is completely sorted out.For now it is going fairly smoothly though,with a few minor bumps(mostly indecisiveness on my part!).
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Old 11-21-2017, 01:17 PM   #10
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Default Re: Hamster Food?

I have a positive update regarding Higgins sourcing,although it could certainly be better!Luckily the ingredients they source from China are in a relatively small amount of products as they source pumpkin seeds,dehydrated sweet peppers,and mung beans from China.

While Higgins Sunburst hamster and gerbil does fall into the category of Higgins products using Chinese sourced ingredients,Higgins Vita Garden doesn't include those ingredients.In fact,many of the Higgins products do not and for that reason their treats and such will still be a decent option if they don't contain the previously mentioned Chinese sourced ingredients(for example their veggie stix which are worth at least trying).
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