Homemade Hamster Mix

[Almi]

If what you're saying is true, then hamsters can't have a lot of seeds, not just fenugreek. Many seeds help stabilize blood sugar, and so do whole foods in general. I still don't see how this item will be an issue for healthy hamsters OR ill hamsters. Like I said, the benefits really seem to outweigh the risks by far.

I would love to trawl through your research, if you have it anywhere at all. I have read about people using fenugreek for their diabetic hamsters, I will try to find the threads again.

Let's say I decide to take the fenugreek out, what should I put in instead? What's in your mix?

[cypher]

There is a difference between foods that help to stabilise blood sugar levels & something like fenugreek which has a marked hypoglycaemic action, even if you don't find any info that convinces you entirely may be it would still be better to just err on the side of caution as it is so often said to be unsafe.

My mix has different a lot of different ingredients to yours so it's not really comparable but if you do take the fenugreek out it would be easy to just increase one or more of the other ingredients to make up the amount & balance nutrients or just leave it out unless that upsets your protein/fat/fibre ratio too much.

[Almi]

Do you have your mix posted anywhere? I'd love to see the ingredients and GA.

Here is what I found about using fenugreek for hamsters.


Vectis Hamstery and Exotics - Diabetes in Hamsters

"Fenugreek is a herbal supplement available in health food shops. It has been shown to reduce blood glucose levels in humans (6). It comes as seeds or as powder in a capsule. Many hamsters will not eat the seeds and need it made up into fenugreek tea (7) which can make the room smell of curry!"

Sounds like hamsters know when to eat them or not...

Fenugreek tea, because the hamsters won't always eat them, and we should then force them to eat them:
COOP Bran flakes for diabetic dwarfies


I have read and posted on this thread in the past:
Treating Diabetic Hamsters with Fenugreek - Ailments & Injuries - Hamster Hideout Forum

Here's someone just guessing:

"Once you have the fenugreek you should start to feed your hamsters these seeds. The quantity should probably be in the amount between 3-10 seeds per day. The amount should NOT exceed 20 per day. You are going to have to play with the amount, you can tell by how your hamster responds to treatment. One thing that I absolutely recommend is to divide your hamster's dose per day into two groups, one to be fed during the day and the other at night. The larger quantity should be during the day. So, for example, if you give your hamster 5 seeds per day you could divide the seeds so that 3 or 4 are fed in the morning and one was fed at night. (I feed my hamster 10 seeds, 6 in the morning and 4 at night)"

"Also you're just going to have to experiment with the fenugreek seeds for the number. If he has high ketones I would start out with maybe 5 in the morning and 2 at night, keep checking the sticks and see if things improve and just adjust it according to how he responds."

"But, REMEMBER, do not exceed 20 fenugreek seeds per day!!"

...On what basis??

While some hamsters seem to avoid fenugreek, this person says: "Hamsters actually do love the taste of fenugreek."

Someone asks, "Is it safe to give Fenugreek if you are not 100% sure the dwarf hamster has diabetes?"

More guessing: "I wouldn't see why not...just don't give them more than 20, I'm also skeptical about getting close to that number. I don't like to give her more than 14 or so.

I wouldn't give a healthy hamster more than 5...they like them but maybe if they're not sick you shouldn't give them so many. It also makes their urine smell like maple slightly so don't be surprised about that."

This person is unsure, and makes more guesses:

"I have two questions:

1) what is the reason for the 20 seed limit? Can you cite any sources for this number? Is it only because the hamster might get hypoglycemia = too low values of sugar in the blood? So if the hamster has severe diabetes, do you think it would be ok to feed more than 20 seeds? Or is there another reason, like some toxidity for larger quantities of fenugreek that I am not aware of?
And is this number only for the dry seeds or also if you sprout the seeds in a seed sprouter? Typically, seeds loose some of their potency when they sprout and I feed my Sonic fenugreek sprout because she doesn't really like the dried seeds. Feeding sprouts also prevents the stink - if you feed the dry seeds the hamster will start to smell like the seeds after a while.

2) why do you recommend feeding more seeds in the morning? As far as I could research, fenugreek works by slowing the transfer of glucose from the bowels to the bloodstream. So, to me, it would make the most sense to feed the fenugreek shortly before the main feeding - which most people do in the evening. Also, this would lower the hamster's blood sugar right during the nightly activity phase so the hamster has a chance to really become active when it should.

Also, I would not feed a hamster that does not have diabetes fenugreek - if it works strongly your hamster might get too low levels of sugar in the blood."

More guessing and parroting!:

"Firstly, because I was told not to exceed 20 seeds. You'd have to ask meowmies. I assume it has to do with the hypoglycemia as you suggested. But, I think it might be also so that it's not the only thing they're eatting, in which case they may become malnourished. They love them, and hamsters only eat about 2 tablespoons of food per day.

Second, I don't know why it just works better. I assume it's because they sleep during the day, giving the body time to metabolize them, then when they wake up at night their sugar is low enough to be able to run around and play and the remaining seeds keep it down. The more active the hamster, the more seeds it will need. I find that hamsters go through different levels of activity at different times."

Now I'm wondering where this Meowmies person got THEIR info...

Other people say:

"I'm no expert but just to share with you that I have been feeding my hamsters about 8-10 fenugreek seeds a day for over a year. They loved it and doesn't seemed to have any issues with their poos."

"I've had my hamsters on fenugreek seeds almost all their lives once I discovered they showed all signs of being a diabetic. They loved it and the glucose strips seemed to also show that things are under control. Then again, I supposed this may not work for all hamsters, but it will not harm them in anyway if they still have them in their diet."

"Mochi is incredibly picky, and doesn't care for fenugreek at all (to my dismay, I thought he'd been eating them but upon examination he wants nothing to do with them). I tried a little sprig of broccoli coated with peanut butter and fenugreek, and that seems to be the key for now (he hardly eats the whole thing, even when I give him a portion no wider than a finger). I'm not concerned with him eating "too many" fenugreek seeds since from the looks of it I hardly got 15 to stick and lord knows he won't eat half of them."

Here is the link again: Treating Diabetic Hamsters with Fenugreek - Ailments & Injuries - Hamster Hideout Forum

People feeding 10-20 seeds per day:
Questions about a diabetic hamster's diet.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...ns/topics/7352

Then I saw this.:Diabetic Syrian!!

Originally Posted by Peanut84:
"Some people also feel feeding Fenugreek seeds is beneficial, it's supposed to lower blood sugar."

Which makes it a medication. If given without close supervision from a vet it could induce severe health problems and an overdose could easily kill the hamster


Wait, where did THAT come from?

Personally, I like what Linda Price has to say on this matter.

"...most if not all forums, has people providing information that is not correct, is incomplete, might work in isolated incidences but not most, etc. Be very careful before implementing random things you read, and know that once a misconception (even a dangerous one) gets passed around, you may read it dozens of times because people on the forums tend to repeat what they've heard instead of what they've experienced."

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...ns/topics/1344

[Vectis Hamstery]

"Fenugreek is a herbal supplement available in health food shops. It has been shown to reduce blood glucose levels in humans (6). It comes as seeds or as powder in a capsule. Many hamsters will not eat the seeds and need it made up into fenugreek tea (7) which can make the room smell of curry!"

The hamsters I have used fenugreek seeds with have been diabetic hamsters only. This article does not refer to non-diabetic hamsters

[cypher]

I'm not sure why this one seed has become such an issue for you Almi but as I've said it's up to you what if any suggestions you want to accept or reject, do your own research make up your own mind & move on.
I don't think a thread like this has the scope for much other than the exchange of ideas on what might make a better mix for you & anything more seems to be going a bit off topic.
I think you've done much of what you set out to achieve in getting some ideas then working on your mix to improve it & come up with something you're happy with.

[Almi]

Cypher, you were the one that seemed concerned about it. It made me concerned too, as I respect your opinion and do care very much about the creatures I'm raising. I am showing you why I don't believe you about what you're saying about fenugreek being unsafe. I want to make sure we're on the same page so that no one has to be worried. Based on the research I did, what you're telling me is only speculation or hearsay - I want to know the facts. If I know the facts, I can make the best decisions. I'm just making sure I'm not missing anything.

So if we both agree that there probably won't be any problems with adding fenugreek to the mix, then I'll get started mixing. I'm still curious as to what your own mix is like before I start, though.

[cypher]

I didn't agree that fenugreek wouldn't be a problem at all, if you want to add it then that's up to you, I honestly don't want to argue the issue, we all have to make our own choices on the information available.

My mix is a bit of a work in progress & probably always will be, it's not a complete food as I have hams varying in age from very young to, lets say middle age! What they're fed will depend on age, condition, behaviour & other factors so my mix is flexible & a base to which I add other foods depending on those criteria.
I don't think posting a list of ingredients is that helpful for those reasons, I did post more about it in that other thread I linked to & you can get an idea of the type of ingredients used there, it hasn't undergone major changes just small changes over time as I work on what's best for my individual hams really.

[Almi]

Lol, well, at least maybe you can see why I don't think it's that big of an issue. I'll get started and let you guys know what I end up with. Again, thanks for all the help. I have no issue with questioning things, and I have no issue with anyone's opinion, but I do have issues with not being able to back up claims with actual evidence.

I'll probably also return in about a year to let you guys know how the hamsters have been doing. I'm starting to consider getting urine test strips to keep better tabs on their health. After all of this worry over fenugreek, there must be some curiosity as to how things will pan out, eh?

[Almi]

We've finally made our final mix! This mix is especially tailored for dwarf hamsters. My friend and I mixed it together last night. She had fun layering the ingredients and taking pictures. I attached a few images so you can see what it looks like. The first picture shows the first layer of ingredients. The second picture is the second layer of ingredients, minus the wild forage, pumpkin seeds, almonds, and walnuts. The third is the mixed result, minus the wild forage. The fourth picture is what it looks like with the dried forage added, and the last picture is of the old mix for comparison.

Here are the ingredients. I combined two similar seed mixes, which put them up in the ingredients list, and it'll be one reason why this list won't exactly match up with the layers in the pictures. But it's close!

- Oats
- Barley
- Seed Mix:
White Millet
Canary Grass Seed
Thistle Seed
Red Millet
Finch Millet
Sunflower Chips
Flax Seed
- Wheat
- Green Peas
- Brown Rice
- Buckwheat
- Amaranth
- Triticale
- Lentils
- Soybeans
- Quinoa
- Mung Beans
- Fenugreek
- Hemp
- Wild Forage (includes, but is not limited to, flowers, buds, seeds, and berries)
- Caraway
- Mealworms
- Crickets
- Pumpkin Seeds
- Almonds
- Walnuts

Fat: 6%
Protein: 18%



The foraging was fun. Everything in the forage mix has been identified, except the exact names of the grasses, but I do know that they are edible grasses.

Here are items included in the forage mix. Everything is hand-picked, hand-trimmed, and carefully dried. Some things are in larger amounts, and some things are in very small amounts.

- American Linden (berries)
- Broadleaf Plantain (seeds)
- Catnip (flowers)
- Chamomile (flowers)
- Clover (flowers, leaves)
- Dandelion (flowers)
- Dock (seeds)
- Grass seed variety (seeds)
- Horseweed (flowers, leaves)
- Juniper (berries)
- Lilac (berries)
- Nettle-leaved Bellflower (flowers)
- Peppergrass (seeds)
- Pineapple weed (flowers)
- Prickly Lettuce and similar plants (flowers)
- Sage (flowers)
- Shepherd's Purse (seeds)
- Thistle variety (flowers)


The hamsters will also receive an additional (fresh or dried) fodder/hay mix which includes, but is not limited to:

- Grass variety
- Prickly Lettuce and similar plants
- Dandelion and similar plants
- Broadleaf Plantain
- Catnip
- Chickweed
- Creeping Charlie
- Goosefoot
- Pigweed
- Purslane
- Yarrow


I had a lot of fun doing this and I learned a lot! I can't wait to see what the hamsters think when I give them the hay mix this winter.

[Almi]

Here are a few pictures. The first is of some grasses and goosefoot I cut from my garden today for the hay mixture. Goosefoot tastes like spinach. The other two pictures are of the forage mix.