Male russian dwarf hamsters - should I seprate them?

[cypher]

I wouldn't put robos in a ball at all tbh, they can get hurt so easily it's not worth the risk.
Can you make them a play bin to put them in both if you want to have time interacting with them & when you do cage cleans?
I know what you mean about not being able to just clean the top layer of substrate, that seems to work with syrians but all my dwarf hams have been burrowers so everything gets mixed up, I just do spot cleans & if more is needed to about a third to half the cage at a time, never more than that.
You don't have to worry about poo getting mixed into the substrate too much, you will need to clean at some point but it's fine to leave for a while, it's dry & doesn't cause problems, mostly you just need to remove stuff that's been peed on!
If the shelf seems to work for them then I guess it's ok but it can be a factor in falling out, just something for them to get territorial over especially if food is on there so it might be worth thinking about removing it & scatter feeding to help keep things going smoothly long term.
If you do need to separate them I think half the Kerry is going to be a bit on the small side tbh.

[My Furry Baby]

The boys are Russian hamsters not sure which type but definitely not robos. I have a playpen but find that hamsters just focus on trying to escape rather than enjoy playing. They have a small ball each and seem to enjoy running in them as they can run around my flat. I was just wondering if putting them each in a ball would promote squabbling on the return to their cage? I have seen the dominance happen just twice now (the second time it occurred out of the blue nothing was done to cage etc) and on observation it is just the bigger on making the smaller one role om his back and leaning on him with no biting and even with his eyes closed? The smaller one was squeaking as he was on his back with the bigger onemail leaning his head on him then he flipped back over and continued as normal. The smaller one doesn't appear to be avoiding him they both go where they please and meet up together in bed and in the sand bath to have a clean together.
Just wondered if that was a better observation and what people know about this whether I should be concerned?
Thanks again

[cypher]

Sorry! The same goes for Russians & balls though.
I tend to side with the opinion that there's no way of knowing if a ham is enjoying running in the ball or trying to escape, I never use them at all now but my first ham hated it when I tried it, when he was in it I had no idea & no way of knowing but his behaviour in general changed, he was really sweet & tame but began to bite when I introduced the ball, stopped using it & he was back to his previous friendly self!
Any kind of separation can promote bullying, not always but it's certainly something to bear in mind if you do continue to use the balls.
What do you have in the play pen & what kind of play pen?
All except one of my Russians have all loved the play pen although you have to introduce them to it slowly, short periods gradually extended so it's not too overwhelming or scary for them.
Make the playpen fun for them with lots to explore, some familiar toys & if possible some substrate on the floor for them to forage around in.
Unless you can watch them 24/7 there really is no way of knowing how much of this dominant behaviour is actually going on but it's not unusual for them to fight then go back to sleeping together afterwards, dominance can escalate at any time though so you need to watch them very carefully for signs of fighting or injury.

[My Furry Baby]

I have a kids ball pit pen which is about just over a metre and when I used it I have familiar toys things to explore etc and I scatter bits of food and hide some in things.
I have been watching them and it seems to be the sleeping area that is a problem or where theye decide to sleep (odd days they sleep under the wheel). The non dominant one always goes in the nest slowly and sometimes jumps a bit before fully going in when the dominant one is in there. Same applies when under the wheel. So the dominant behaviour of putting the other on his back while he squeaks is occurring (only sometimes) where the dominant one decides to sleep. When they are up and about in the evening running on wheels getting food etc this doesn't seem to happen. The dominant one never chases the other and when put on his back the non dominant one will stay on his back a bit even if the other is not holding him (he never seems to try to run away). I have put another nesting box with bedding in and the non dominant one is sleeping in there. Does this mean they will soon fall out because of separate sleeping arrangements?
I don't know if this means anything but the non dominant one is more social with me and has not bitten me since I first got them where as the dominant one keeps trying to bite and is very hard to handle as he is always being quick to get away.

[cypher]

There's no way of knowing for sure if they are going to fall out in earnest or not but with such clear dominance from one I would think it likely, I would have expected the non dominant, more nervous one to bite rather than the other way around but maybe the dominant one is just the most territorial of the two & that's why he bites.
It's hard for me to judge not being around them but it sounds as though both of them might be happier alone & more comfortable interacting with you if they were alone too.

[My Furry Baby]

Yes the dominant one seems to be more nervous for example he was less happy to explore the cage when I first got him and doesn't take treats from me where as the non dominant one was happy to explore the cage, rake treats off me etc