WW Boys Separation?

MsMojo · 02-21-2013, 04:22 AM

Hi all

So it's been a few months since my little Ruby passed and I decided to use the enormous cage (Ferplast Duna Fun Large) I have for two new WWs.

I got a pair of four week old boys, Pea and Nut, from the ***** breeder two weeks ago. They're both absolutely adorable and very tame from day one. I get them out of their cages every day and have a little play with them in the bath or in their playpen. In fact, I can't even describe how adorable they are - they make my heart melt

They have the occasional squeaking bicker in the tubes when they're trying to get past each other (they're so small that they can get both fit in the tubes) and the occasional little squabble over food (was slightly worried that this could be a bad fight) and sometimes the beds, but soon settle down. So I bought a large bowl, two flying saucers and a wheel, and two huts to sleep in as I was slightly worried.

I decided to clean the cage out on Sunday as it was a couple of weeks and they're pretty settled chaps by this point. Last night Nut was absolutely territorial over the bottom of the cage where the wheels are and two of the houses, as soon as Pea puts one paw on the bottom, then Nut jumps out of his house and they have a massive squeaking fight with Pea ending up on his back. I later noticed that Pea was sleeping in his wheel on the second shelf, so put another bedroom hut on that same shelf which he has been sleeping in since last night.

My question is:

Shall I clean out the cage again so that Nut can't get all territorial over the bottom of the cage, or is it time to get another cage?

I'm so worried that they'll hurt each other and don't want them to be upset so I'll pop out today and get a new cage just incase.

I just know that once I separate them then there is no going back and I really wanted them to have company.

Any advice on keeping them either together or what I should try would be appreciated.

Petite1 · 02-21-2013, 04:33 AM

Hamsters in a cahe with different levels can become very territorial, try taking the shelf out so there is only one level this may help, there is a thread on pairs on here this may help too, hope everything goes ok

souffle · 02-21-2013, 04:35 AM

Personally I would do it sooner rather than later in case a bad fight happens although at 6 weeks of age I would expect them to be more tolerant of each other. 4 weeks is very young to get them though and they will not have had a chance to be run on with other litter mates if you got them this young. The cage set up isn't ideal for a pair if it has levels and tubes as these zones make them territorial and one hamster can defend an area or trap the other in a tube where it can't get out. Bullying is as bad as fighting as one hamster will have high stress hormones and will not be eating properly if the other is guarding the food. Can you check them all over for any nips, bites or scabs to see if they are biting at each other? It really is your decision though as you can see how bad the fighting is and if they are ever together as a pair.
They are not pure WW though as you do not get that gingery colour in Winter Whites. (at least it looks gingery in the pic) That comes from argente campbells genes somewhere along the lines. If one is more 'cambelly' in temperament and the other more WW (he is a pearl) then they may well not get along very well even though they are brothers.
They are very lovely

MsMojo · 02-21-2013, 05:13 AM

Thanks both for your answers.

I held them both last night and checked everywhere for any marks, even their feet.. I found a small mark on Pea, but where I would expect the scent gland to be so not sure if it's that.. But no other marks.

I think I'll go and buy a new cage over lunch so it's there tonight if I need it.

But I'll try taking the shelf out and also re-arrange the bottom so that any marked territory can be wiped clean. I shall stay up and watch them tonight and the first sign of any bad squabbles then they're separated.

Souffle: Regarding the colour, the ***** breeder has on his website that the gingery one is bred from a pair he got from France . Was under the impression that he is still a WW. But I can see what you mean about the colour.. I also think that they were a little older than four weeks, but this is what I was told.

The attachment in first post was taken within the first few days, so maybe they were slightly older? I'm not an expert on them so am not sure.

I've attached another picture just because they're cute and this is proof that they did love being together at one point

souffle · 02-21-2013, 05:38 AM

Mandarins are known to be hybrids. They have different views on breeding on the continent and consider a line 'pure' again once it is only 3 generations (or something close to that) past the Hybrid breeding. This is not the case though because once a line has the mixed genes in it there is no way of removing them. They are passed on to each generation forever. Because the person who bred them got them from France they may think they are pure as this is what they have been sold as and considered as in France. They also look like the WW in type. UK breeders are very careful and don't get hamsters from the continent so that they don't threaten the purity of the UK lines some of which can be traced back to wild caught animals I believe. The standard colours found in WW can be seen here:
Winter White Russian Hamster
You would not be able to show a Mandarin WW as it would be disqualified in the UK as a hybrid.

olga · 02-21-2013, 06:21 AM

Ms Mojo your hamsters are very cute. I am sorry that you have worries. I would be inclined to separate them before anything nasty happens. Also you will feel a lot less anxious when you know no harm can come to either.

I am also sorry you have been mislead in thinking they were winter whites. They are hybrid dwarfs.

They will be okay living alone as singles. Good luck.

jesselle · 02-21-2013, 06:25 AM

i don't like that 'breeder' - he straight out ignores you when you ask about hybrids and i think he started out with some pure wws and then hybridised his lines. i really wish he would stop breeding and selling because he is fooling people into thinking they have pure wws, meaning they may not feed them appropriately etc, leading to health issues in the hams. he also sells his own food mixes, which are high in sugar and fat and again, not suitable for hybrids. to be safe, i'd treat your two as hybrids. i wish there was a way to stop him from 'trading'.

anyway, on topic, what about removing the shelves and tubing? maybe some stoppers for the tube holes? the cage is a great size otherwise.

MsMojo · 02-21-2013, 06:46 AM

Thanks again all for your helpful posts.

It's a shame that they're not Winter Whites and I was misled in thinking that they were. I think perhaps the guy from ****** should change his listings in this case, however I can't fault the hammies on their temperament and cutness factor. I think he is also listed under the Breeders section here.

Jesselle: I have been using a bit of his food mix, but also mixed up with some of Silvers Dwarf Hamster mix which was left over from Ruby, just so that they get used to the new stuff. I'll switch over the Silvers straight away.

But, even with my little hybrid boys, I still love them just as much and they are so tame and jump in my hand.

I've bought another Duna Fun Large cage just now so I'll set that up tonight.. I'll just watch them a little while again tonight with the shelves out and no tubing, before I finally make my decision.

Thanks again all. I really appreciate the advice given.

Oh and for hammie pic lovers, attached is a pic of my Syrian, Mojo, as Pea and Nut are getting all the attention.

**Silver** · 02-21-2013, 06:54 AM

Your two are gorgeous!

But they are Hybrids. I know this as fact due to two registered National Hamster Council Exhibitor/Breeders sold this person two pure WW's to start breeding. Unfortunately this person then bred them to hybrids & for a while used the area of one of the NHC breeders/exhibitors claiming they were pure.

They have since stopped saying they are pure WW's they just say they are WW's.

Some people have no morals what so ever (the breeder)

I hope your two get along better, if not then they will be just as lovely in there own cages.

xxx

jesselle · 02-21-2013, 07:42 AM

sorry msmojo - my post was a little ranty. they are beautiful hams and they sound like they have wonderful temperaments. you should be proud of them

i have nothing against hybrids (my emi is hybrid and was sold to his original owner as a girl winter white), i just don't like what that 'breeder' is doing.

mods - could we have his listing removed from the list on the forum?

sounds great that you have another fab cage ready, just in case. looking forward to getting to know these little guys!

ps. mojo is a beauty!