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Old 03-27-2007, 12:30 PM   #1
Holly
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Default Nibbling??

For the past few nights our tame and easy to handle Winter White's have taken to giving both mine and Will's hands the odd little nibble ...I can't really call them bites - they don't break the skin or even hurt much ....or seem to have any effort behind them at all.

It's just that they didn't do it when we first got them and now they are

I don't think it's that they are scared - they are still incredibly tame, they allow themselves to be picked up easily and they don't move away from us when we get near them. I also don't think it's that our hands smell of food - we wash our hands and use alcohol hand gel between handling the hamsters (though not between the WW's as we want their smells to be transfered to each other) and we don't hand feed them when they are out either.

Will isn't too bothered by it - he's had 'proper' bites from our Syrians when we were taming them and he's not bothered by those either (he's become a right little hamster guru ) but I must admit I don't like it. It's making me nervous about picking them up though I am still doing it and I'm also trying not to put them straight back when they nibble (though it's what I feel like doing).

Any ideas???
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Old 03-28-2007, 11:44 AM   #2
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Well we had them out for 20 minutes this evening - and Turner bit Will twice - just a nip and it didn't really bother him but, I'll be honest, it's bothering me . I didn't really want to pick them up tonight - I held both of them for a few seconds and then gave them back, I know it's pathetic but constantly bracing myself for the nip makes me very nervous

Will possibly did smell of oranges tonight (I've been sniffing his hand madly and I think I smelt it) but we'd both washed our hands and used the gel as we always do. Yesterday Sparrow nipped both of us - it seems to be getting worse.

I'm worried because Will goes away with his dad for five days on Saturday, the way things are now I don't know if I'll be able to get them out and I'm worried what that will do to their "tameness".

What are we doing wrong?
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Old 03-29-2007, 12:16 AM   #3
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Can you try and hold them in a way that makes is hard for them to get a nip in. Pick them up by imagining they are a computer mouse and the tail is the cord. Put your hand over them and let the tail come between index and middle finger then lift. The mouth should then be in a no nip position. Try and not allow them to be able to get in a mouth on position. Try and be confident as they can sense your nerves. Before you pick them out rub yours hands well in the sawdust and bedding so you are nice and smelly. They may think you are a cage invader! If you cannot get them directly out of the cage, herd into a box and take them well away from the cage before handling. I suspect they are just 'tasting' you to make sure you are safe and not really biting. It is their only way of checking something out so they taste and smell. Remember you could be a very large predator playing with them! ou need to be strong and brave when Will is away so thet they do not lose the wonderful tameness you have got now. If they do nip try a gentle blow on the nose and a firm no.
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Old 03-29-2007, 02:55 AM   #4
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I'll try your suggestions, Souffle - getting them out of the cage is no problem for Will - he just picks them up and he certainly isn't nervous. If they bite him he ignores it! I, on the other hand, get sweaty palms when I pick them up now (though I didn't before, when they started the nibbling) and tend not to hold them and just put them straight down.

I suspect you are right about the nibbling to taste us to see if we are "alright" - I'm going to go back to basics while Will is away and wear a tissue up my sleeve for a few hours which I'll then add to their bedding each evening. I'm also going to get Josh to come round a couple of times - he also ignores it if they nip him so he'll be a big help.
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Old 03-29-2007, 08:59 AM   #5
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Snowy used to do this too, it made me very nervous to hold him, I never got him to stop.
One thing I would say is try not to put them straight back in the cage after they have bitten you because if they ever get bored while out the cage they will bite because they know they get put in if they bite. Hope things start to improve
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Old 03-29-2007, 11:09 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hana
Snowy used to do this too, it made me very nervous to hold him, I never got him to stop.
Oh no, that's really depressing
I wish I knew exactly why and then I might be able to do something about it

It seems strange that they didn't do it to start with - it seems like something they've learned and I feel like we must be doing something to reinforce the behaviour.
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Old 03-30-2007, 03:42 AM   #7
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Right this is what we are going to do:

* "wear" a tissue (one each when Will is home) for several hours every day then tear it up and add it to their coconut nest.

* move the cage downstairs during the day so that, if they wake up as they usually do several times in the day, I can talk to them and they will smell me near them and get more used to me/us.

While Will is way I'm going to:

* get them out by getting them to hop into their exercise balls, then put them into a dry bath and get in with them. I'm not going to pick them up with my hands for a few days (as that's the only time they bite) but just let them climb on me and walk on me as they wish (they do this already but this is like going back to basics).

* give them a little treat in the cage each time I put them back - only when they haven't nipped. I've just discovered that they love yogurt drops so I'll break one into tiny pieces and give them a couple each.

* once I feel more confident and when Will is back we'll try picking them up and letting them walk on our hands again. If they nip we won't put them back immediately and we'll blow on their faces and say "no" plus not give the treat.

Does this sound ok? Am I missing anything?

I really want to try and discourage them from biting a) because I don't like it and b) because I'd like to enter them at Brockholes and wouldn't feel comfortable doing that now they've started biting.
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Old 03-30-2007, 05:45 AM   #8
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You seem to have a good plan Holly. Can you add putting your hand over their bodies so they still have the feel of being handled. Like a said computer mouse style. Dont worry about entering them. The judge is well used to handling (its Sheryl so there will be no problems) I have a funny picture of you in my head, inthe bath with hams walking over you and a very worried expression
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Old 03-30-2007, 08:20 AM   #9
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Hurrah! We've just done our first session as they were both awake - and it worked. We didn't actually hold either of them in our hands but let them climb all over both of us after scooping them out in a ball. Neither of us had a nip and we gave them a yogurt drop broken up afterwards which they both fell on like they'd never been fed before

Quote:
Originally Posted by souffle
You seem to have a good plan Holly. Can you add putting your hand over their bodies so they still have the feel of being handled. Like a said computer mouse style.
Yes I'll try and do that as well - we didn't just now but we'll get them out again tonight.


Quote:
Originally Posted by souffle
I have a funny picture of you in my head, inthe bath with hams walking over you and a very worried expression
..I'm sure that would be hilarious (my expression might be less worried now as I'll keep that picture in my mind ).
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Old 03-31-2007, 01:59 AM   #10
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We did the same again later in the evening and it went well with no nipping at all. Both WW's climbed happily all over both of us (including right up to our faces and over our shoulders) and generally didn't act like scared or untame hamsters at all. They also didn't nip when Will lifted them out of the cage and I lifted them back in - the only times we actually "held" them in our hands.

So I think I might have hit on the problem.

Could it be that we are trying to hold them too much? All three of our Syrians are happy to sit in our hands for quite long periods of time and I wonder if we've been trying to do the same with two dwarf hamsters who'd be happier running and climbing on us? Up until now, apart from getting them both out at once, we've treated them the same as the Syrians ie/ scooped them up as soon as they climb off our hands/arms. Could it be that they don't want to sit still (ish) on us and that we've been trying to hold them for too long periods which isn't natural for them? They seemed really happy to be running around all over us last night - I can't put my finger on how I know but they seemed to be really enjoying it!

I've read in a lot of places that dwarf hams are generally less "cuddly" than Syrians and will usually tolerate being held a lot less. Perhaps, because they were so tame when we got them, we've stupidly been trying to actually hold them all the time when we should be letting them climb?????

Anyway I'm carrying on with the "plan" and I'm much happier now (hopefully they are as well).
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