Reverse Bullying - Separation

[GingerCookie]

Hi everyone, been voraciously reading all your tips on roborovski hamsters.

Also thoroughly read the oak farm robo reintroduction post although I'm half and half on a full introduction especially since I am nervous after what happened.

Right now I have a very odd case of what I call reverse bullying.

Of all the bully cases I seem to read about how it's the fatter, bigger one who chases, my situation is anything but typical.

My pied robo, Cookie is thinner and a little scrappier yet the more dominant of the two. Whenever there were scuffles, it was he who was always chasing and pinning Ginger who is fatter and bigger yet has always been a scaredy ham since day one. That said, despite Cookies craziness, Ginger has no injuries. I checked every time he squeaks. Very fluffy bumfluff, belly fur pristine. He's just yelling as he's scared of being pinned.

Still, I was concerned with Cookie's treatment so I fed Cookie mealworms. That improved so they both became very fluffy and Cookie was filling out nicely.

As it was getting smelly regardless of small spot cleans, signs of a healthy male robo pair I suppose, I heard that fully cleaning the cage causes stress yet they don't like smelly cages so I put them both into a large sterilte bin they were both in before.

Big mistake. Sadly one thing led to another and despite reading everything on the forums, it was Ginger who bit Cookie when Cookie tried to chase and pin him again.

Cookie bled so immediately I separated them into different bins.

The oddest thing is, Cookie didn't even squeak and it seemed "normal" for him.

He wasn't fazed at all and ran in his wheel no problemo.

I tried to nurse him but he wouldn't have it.

It was Ginger who seemed worse for wear hiding for dear life in his enclosure.

I've bought wire gauge and am cleaning and separated the detolf because this is harder for me than the hams. I still remember them cuddled as little fluff balls when they were cold and timid of taming sessions.

I truly believe that it was the cage cleaning that caused this burst of violence.

Anyways, if I can see them sleep next to each other next to a wire divider and I switch them from side to side for variety even if not full on re-introduction, I will take that compromise.

But I'm feeling all sorts right now. Disappointment, failure, and just sadness.

It's true that the hams shrug it off.

I should learn from them. Sigh.

Anyways hopes this helps those who didn't think this could happen.

[souffle]

I'd go with keeping them totally separate if I were you. Problem is with a wire divider the can still smell / see and sense each other. They can never be truly able to settle as there is always the just in case scenario going on. They have very complex hormonal things going on resulting in this behavior. Cookie will be thin due to the constant release of adrenalin. His body is constantly burning energy and releasing the fight or flight hormones and this is not good for him. He is always anxious and on edge. Ginger is reverse and chubby as he needs to hide and lacks excercise. He's probably eating in case it's his last meal. In my opinion they are better alone. Remember two same sex animals forced to stay together (which they are even if with the best intentions as they have no option but to be with the cagemate) is never a natural situation.
Wild groups would be mixed sex. age and breeding status.
Sometimes when they are well passed their natural age of maturity and well settled re-introduction may be possible but it's always a risk.
Because you care it is worrying you but they do fine alone and you can feel easy in yourself that they are safe. If you must separate the tank make the barrier solid and sealed in so they cannot see or smell each other.
Good luck.

[Pebbles82]

I don't think it was the cage clean that caused it - it had been going on for a while and bullying is as bad as fighting with injuries in some ways. Much better that they are separated. Could you make a bin cage for one and let the other one have the whole detolf? There was a case recently where a hamster managed to either get through or chew through the partition to the other side and killed the other one (the partition had been to separate them). It's hard to have a strong enough partition and hamsters often manage to get round it somehow. And as Souffle says they are still in quite close proximity with the same roof mesh and scents.

As I understand it, although they can live happily together from birth, fighting and so on can easily begin once their hormones kick in and it's very common for a pair to need separating once they get to a certain age.

[GingerCookie]

Thanks Souffle and Serendipity for taking the time to respond.

They are fine in the bins and seem none the worse for wear. While it's reassuring it's not the cage clean that caused it, I'm very sad that there was bullying at all.

They behave when I'm in the room and hide together then come out to grab food from the "magic hand" together. But you're right there must have been bullying.

Here's a picture of them during better times a few weeks ago. I just fed them and their cheek pouches are full.

Sorry for the blurriness on Cookie (the pied hamster). He doesn't sit still!