Nugget's thread

[Pebbles82]

Nugget has had his vet visit to the exotic vet. Got him out in the playpen first and then into the pet carrier via a tube. The new vet was very good - she scooped him into a glass jar so she could see his underside and he obliged by standing on his back legs to try and climb out. That way you could see his underneath well. He has quite a few lumps. She said what was expected - could be cyst, inflammation or various types of tumour. She said she’d have no problem operating if necessary and had operated on hamsters smaller than him but thought it best to try baytril and metacam first as they might shrink away depending on the cause. She did say though that as it covers quite a large area of his underside it would be quite a lot of area to operate on. But that metacam is good for helping to shrink tumours as well as being anti inflammatory. She said it could also be mammary inflammation as boys also have mammary glands. Which is interesting as when I first looked I thought - if he was a girl I’d think he had mastitis. Seeing him in the vets though made me realise he is looking thinner and she commented that his condition dudn’t look that good and his skin was a bit pink.

OH and I both thought he was looking a bit Raggy but I wasn’t sure if that was just getting older. Anyway Nugget was very good and well behaved. He hated the glass jar (maybe bad memories from babyhood as I believe he had 2 or 3 vet visits to sex him when he was a baby). He spent the first part of the car journey trying to find a way out of the pet carrier but then settled into his coconut hut and was quite relaxed. He is not happy though! When he got back in his cage he ignored his house and went and hid behind his wheel and gave me a very hurt disapproving look. I got him out in a mug from his house area earlier so maybe should have scooped him up outside of his house instead.

Anyway quite a good chat with the vet. Partly about Nugget’s medication but I also asked if she could do the blood test for Cushings if necessary. Like many vets she seemed to think getting blood from a hamster wasn’t really possible but there is the urine test which isn’t as good. But when I explained about Charlie having possible Cushings 2 years ago and said I had been upset that he couldn’t have Metacam because it was contra indicated in Cushings and he didn’t have a clear diagnosis - she said if that was the case there are other pain relief medications that can be used. She seemed to know her stuff on medication and that was reassuring - and a bit of news as well as most vets only know about Metacam.

More news about Metacam too. Nugget has been prescribed 0.3 of a ml of dog Metacam. I said I had only been given cat Metacam before and she said there has been some new procedure for treating hamsters as it had been realised that they had been under medicating hamsters with Metacam for a long time and their Merabolism and the dosage meant a larger dose of the dog Metacam was needed rather than a small dose of the cat Metacam.

Getting meds into a Robo is not going to be easy. I suggested putting it in a bit of baby food and she said that is fine for Metacam but not for baytril unless he eats all of the food it’s in as if he doesn’t get the full dose it can make things worse rather than better and get superbugs. So it’s a case of squirting it in with a syringe.

The Metacam she suggested making a small amount of jelly in a cube with 10 doses in and then when it’s set, cutting the cube into 10 small pieces and giving him the Metacam in the jelly pieces and that the dosage was less crucial if he didn’t eat all of it.

Anyway I have quite a large bottle of Metacam which lasts six months before it’s expiry once opened. Two small syringes with the 0.3 etc markings on. No need to go back if the swellings go and if they don’t improve, take it from there.

I am wondering whether to just try the Metacam first before starting the baytril - due to the medicating issues. But she did explain that there can be more than one thing going on with a lump - infection and inflammation so maybe it would need both.

[Coco61]

That sounds like a well informed and worthwhile vet visit. Glad she could get a good look at Nugget's undercarriage and so could you.
I see the difference over the meds. Antibiotics must be given in full but the pain relief does not matter quite as much. Logical. Mind you, a syringe of baytril into a robo won't be easy.
The jelly idea is interesting. Baby food and porridge if Nugget eats them could ring the changes and keep him interested.
The diluted dog dose follows exactly what happened when Mocho was treated for Cushings. So again I find that understandable. As for taking blood from a Syrian - for Mocho it was a whiff of gas and then taken from the neck area.
Hope the meds go ok for Nugget and that the lumps shrink.

[Pebbles82]

Thank you Coco. The Baytril is 0.2 of a ml - not that much but she says it tastes bitter so they may not eat it in food. Also Robos eat so little! If I give Nugget a blueberry or a piece of veg he just nibbles a tiny bit off it - so he may have a lick or two of baby food but wouldn't eat a whole pea sized amount I think.

I think the blood taking must be a very specialised thing - you're lucky to have a vet who can do it. However I feel reassured that if I ever had a hamster with Cushings again there is at least alternative pain medication (although don't know what it is!).

She did say that sometimes they grab the syringe if you put it near their mouth and you can squirt it in then.

Main issue will be it means handling Nugget every day for two weeks and that will stress him. Actually the handling may not stress him - it's getting him out of the cage that stresses him. He has been avoiding coming out in the cage until after we've gone to bed after his playpen session at the week-end - he doesn't want to be scooped up!And he's too savvy to walk into a tube - even for food.

Just to be clear, my queries on Cushings diagnosis etc are nothing to do with Nugget - but I wanted to know what the vet's views were if I was ever in that situation again. She seemed very good and on the ball - quite clinical and practical rather than interested in Nugget himself, but I did persuade her to hold him after he'd been in the jar and said he sits quietly if you hold him, which she did, so that was a bit less clinical before he went back in the pet carrier. Maybe she was a bit scared he'd bite or something

Robos are so different from Syrians. If I put Newt in a pet carrier with a house, bedding, food and treats scattered, he would set to and make a nest, eat the food, forage for the treats and hoard it all. Robos seem to ignore the food and just want to escape.

With the jelly - even if he didn't eat all of the tiny cube he'd be getting some of the Metacam - it's being given as an anti-inflammatory rather than for pain relief but I guess that covers both bases. I don't think he's in pain, but maybe some discomfort.

Nugget seemed fine this evening. He's been out on his saucer and wheel and had a very short chat but a bit skitty, understandably and runs back to his den under the wheel. It seems he is nesting under the wheel again now. I'll give him a few days to settle. And actually if he's abandoned the house it would be a good time to spot clean it in a few days! It needs it.

[cypher]

I'm glad you were able to see such a good vet who clearly knows her stuff, everything she says about both Nugget & meds makes sense, I don't envy you having to syringe feed a robo though, hope you get on ok with that & start to see an improvement with meds alone & he won't need any other treatment.
Good to hear he's been out & about, it's understandable if he's a little skittish for a while bless him, it must have been a bit of an adventure for him!

[Pebbles82]

Nugget has been happily out in his cage climbing up his ramp and foraging and seems just the same as ever.

I still think as I did before seeing the vet though, that the main lump (which is large and strange looking) is probably a tumour. I want him to enjoy what life he has left and am probably only going to give him the Metacam in food.

[cypher]

He's a great little man being so unfazed by it all!

It is a bit of a difficult decision, I think I'd feel the same about the stress of trying to syringe feed meds tbh especially while he seems to be doing so well right now.
Have you tried him with any baby foods or porridge before? It might be worth trying a little to see if he does eat any or how much so you may have that option if you do decide to try the baytril at any point. I've never had any problem giving it in food but Robos are smaller & eat less I guess so maybe not so easy.

[Pebbles82]

Yes that is a good idea Cypher. I might see how he goes with the Metacam in a bit of food and see how that goes and not rule out the Baytril completely yet. I think the vet was in two minds as well initially adamant it couldn't be put in food as dosage important but then saying it could be difficult and could always try the baytril in jelly or whatever. Maybe I need a day or so to get my head round it. Always difficult to know what's what without a clear diagnosis.

Well yes he seemed unfazed but at the moment doesn't trust me. He has abandoned his house and is in his emergency nest near his wheel. When putting his food out tonight I held a nut out to him and he ran at my hand! Then immediately ran away and ran madly in his wheel. Poor Nugget. He had just trusted me to hold him and then I took him out to this place where he was plonked in a jar and then his coconut nearly rolled on him when the vet put it back in the pet carrier (not very carefully!).

So I'm going to give him a couple of days before starting anything. At least he is using his new lowered ramp easily.

[cypher]

Poor Nugget, it's totally understandable but must be disheartening to see him feeling like that when you'd been able to handle him & had his trust so completely before but I'm sure he'll settle again with a little time.

[Pebbles82]

Not too disheartened I just want him to feel happy again - I'm sure he'll settle again. Actually I quite like him having two nests and switching between them - it makes spot cleaning one end of the cage much easier while he's in the other end. He's had lots of treats and extras to make up for the stress and upheaval and the humiliation of being held up in the air in a glass jar

[Coco61]

Lots of treats and extras should appease poor Nugget. Switching between 2 nests is quite a good defence mechanism in his mind - you might not be able to find him for a further expedition...he thinks!