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Old 01-18-2016, 10:54 PM   #31
cypher
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Default Re: My sweetie

They do take a while to get comfortable & confident with out of cage time, I've found with all mine that it's best to build up slowly.
Climbing all over you is totally normal, exploring & trying to escape can just be a big part of the fun, if she's frightened her ears will most likely be down, she may stop & do a bit of excessive face washing which is a sign they feel a bit nervous.
Don't make the area too big, open space is a bit scary for them so start fairly small, still with enough room to explore & play a bit then enlarge it later if need be.
I think the bath can be a bit much for a dwarf tbh & a smaller space might be better, at least to begin with.
I find it best to stick to the same set up rather than thinking something isn't working & trying something different, that way they begin to get familiar with things.
I use a play pen & find that when I put them at a certain spot once they get used to being in there they will always go back to that same spot & usually meerkat as a way of saying "Can I come out now please!".
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Old 01-23-2016, 02:58 PM   #32
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Default Re: My sweetie

I think she finally likes her part of the room outside of the cage. She runs around, through all the tunnels, climbs on stuff and returns to her "safe spot" (smaller carton box) in between. Today she actually fell half asleep in that box. I hide one or two meal-worms on different spots of the playground, and I think she enjoys looking for them as well.

You gotta love their fluffy backsides.


She really likes pumpkin seeds. So far they seem to be her favorite thing. Not too great as an instant reward food though . I'm thinking of trying some clicker training with her. But I need to find a perfect treat first.
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Old 01-23-2016, 09:57 PM   #33
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Default Re: My sweetie

Nice photos!
I think pumpkins seeds are a great treat if they don't just pouch them, I love to watch the way they peel & eat them.
What do you mean by clicker training? Sounds like something you do with a dog?!
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Old 01-24-2016, 09:23 AM   #34
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Well you can do clicker training with loads of animals, almost any kind I would say. As long as you can figure out, what are they willing to work for, what's their currency in a way. I think dolphins were one of the first. It is still very much used with elephants etc. We do use clicker training with dogs in the shelter where I volunteer. My friend uses clicker with her rats.

You use this device that gives a specific sound "click". There are a lots of uses. Basically what I was thought is, that it is very useful for learning/keeping behavior without force. Positive training in a way. That stimulates the brain, develops the bond between animal and human and is loads of fun for both. You use clicker to mark the desired behavior, it's a way to say good, ok, yes. And the animals seem to process it in a different part of the brain compared to our voice. (Probably because of the distinct sound that it makes, we say good/ok/yes during out normal conversation.) And the click also means, you did good, the exercise is over, come get your reward (or the reward is coming). Reward can be treat, play, cuddles, toy, affection ... Treats are very convenient, because they tend not to disrupt the learning process. Of course in the beginning every animal has to be thought that the "click" sound means that reward is coming. But most figure it out after a couple of clicks.
Then you can:
1) Simply wait for the desired behavior to happen naturally (capturing). For example if you want to learn a dog to sit on command, you wait for him to sit, then you click and give reward. It takes some practice to time your clicks. The rewarding part can take a couple of seconds, ideally it's between 1-2 sec after the click, never before. In this case the reward is best to be given when the dog is standing, so that he has to sit again to begin new exercise. After you are good at this, you add the word sit after the dog is sitting, you then click and reward. Eventually you lengthen the time between command and click.
2) Luring is another way. You can put the treat in such a way that a dog pulls his head back and sits down to get it. But before you give it to him, you click.
3) You can also push the dog's bottom down in order to make him sit and then click. I don't like this one and I wouldn't even use it on a dog, much less on a hamster even it were doable.
4) Or shaping, where you divide behavior into tiny pieces and reward for each successful part. So if I would like my hamster to climb onto a box, I would click and reward him when he comes close to the box, then when he puts first paw on top of the box and then eventually give him a massive reward, when he climbs on. That one really gets the animal to think, what it is that you want from him/her. Ugh I hope I wasn't too long .

So in a way I'm looking for small treats. So small that I could give five to ten in one session. And not too unhealthy. I might just split the meal-worms to several pieces, but I imagine it would take some time to grab them with my "not so handy" fingers . My friend uses some sort of paste for her rats, she smears it on her finger to reward each successful attempt . Hm meal-worm-pumpkin seed paste :
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Old 01-24-2016, 10:01 AM   #35
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Sorry, I should have phrased that differently! I do know about clicker training with dogs & some other animals but personally I can't really see why you would want to do it with a ham. Rats I can kind of understand but I see the nature of hams & our relationship with them as very different , I prefer to allow them to behave as naturally as possible & see what some call taming more as bonding while allowing them to still be hamsters!
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Old 01-24-2016, 11:28 AM   #36
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Default Re: My sweetie

Beautiful little one!
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Old 01-24-2016, 12:13 PM   #37
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Hm, what would you say a most natural environment is? Or the right amount of contact with humans? Perhaps I should check some of your other posts to get the idea, but I would love it, if you could say a bit more on that subject.

I don't know, it seems I always come back to the same problem. What makes an animal happy? How can I tell if it is happy or at least content? I decided to bring home a small animal and she will probably have a very uneventful life. No rain, no major temperature changes, most of her life spent in the same cage, food almost always a few inches away from her home, no other creatures that would want to hurt her or eat her ... The only stress will probably come from us trying to interact with her in one way or another. And our needs are purely selfish: she is our pet and we don't want to just look at her, no matter how cute she is. And I may be wrong but I think none of my previous hamsters would mind if I kept our interaction (touch, talk, handling) to zero. Two of them never ran away from me, but I don't think they enjoyed my company either. They probably saw me as a source of food and that's it. Clicker training exploits that in a way, or it regulates it.

I know some people that have the same interaction with hamsters as they do with fish. They enjoy looking and observing their hamsters from afar. They feed them, give them water, maybe change one thing or two in their cages and clean their cage from time to time. During cleaning time they lure the hamsters in to the box, or just pick them up while they are in their house. I on the other hand would like at least some contact with my hammie. And I'm trying to find ways to do that in a way that doesn't cause too much stress for her.

The other day I actually googled Where do hamsters like to be petted. Simply because I like stroking that little ball of fur. But in the back of my mind I doubt that she will ever enjoy it. My only hope is that she can learn to tolerate it for a minute or two
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Old 01-25-2016, 12:11 AM   #38
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Default Re: My sweetie

Don't get me wrong, I do think we can interact with our hams, some never really enjoy human contact & may be a bit more like fish in the sense of just a pet to watch but most come to trust us, enjoy our company & interact with us in their own way.
My feeling about the clicker training type thing is it's really more suited to pack animals that are only comfortable knowing their place in the group so the owner being the alpha/boss & training them works just fine.
Hams are solitary animals for the most part & so I think their relationship is different & I kind of see it as a privilege when they allow us to be part of their lives
Keeping a ham as a pet is never going to be that close to a natural life but we can do our best to make it as natural & stimulating as possible for them.
Enrichment, in other words making the cage as interesting as possible with lots of things to explore, lots of substrate to dig in & suitably safe things to climb around on, different surfaces & textures, the addition of things like safe dried herbs & flowers in areas of the cage, scatter feeding or hiding their food so they have to forage rather than just taking it from the bowl are all things that can make their life a lot more fun for them to enjoy & us to watch.
I think if a ham is happy in it's cage & taming is done at their pace they mostly soon become comfortable with us talking to them, then holding & stroking them, all my boys have enjoyed stroking & cuddles, my girls some but not so much! They tend to be more hyper but still enjoy handling, mostly using me as a climbing frame & something to explore!
I try to make play areas similar to the cage as much as is practical, scatter substrate around for them to have a little dig or forage in & lots of things for them to explore.
I don't think our needs are purely selfish, yes we want to enjoy them but if we take the time to get to know them & what they like then they will want to be with us & enjoy our company, a ham that runs to the door to greet you & climb into your hand is only doing that because it wants to! If a ham turns out to be one that prefers to have less contact & spend more time doing it's own thing then that's the way I let it be.
I always "tame" to the point where i can handle a ham whatever their preferences simply so I can do health checks without them becoming stressed out, how much further things go depends entirely on the individual ham. The amount of time we spend with them will depend on the individual too but it's something that you can build up gradually & as long as your ham is looking alert, ears up & not held back, not running around in a panicky mode rather then just exploring & not trying to hide or excessively washing it's face (an odd sign of nerves!) you can usually be sure your ham is enjoying it's time out.
Hope that makes sense & helps a bit!
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Old 01-27-2016, 12:35 PM   #39
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I think clicker training (with dogs at least) is really not about being a boss or an authority figure. It's mostly about building trust, learning how to communicate, working and playing together. It works great on dogs that have been previously mistreated by this whole "alpha/dominance/corrections" theory.

But I see your point. I guess sometimes I feel totally lost and I want to return to what I know. But I need to keep in mind that hamsters, as you have said, are solitary creatures. And because they are pretty low on the food chain, I guess some of the nervousness will always be there. I will try to enrich her environment according to what you have said, because it does make perfect sense.

We are still not to the point of her coming onto my hand, when I put it near her. She always checks if there is something on my hand. And if I have a seed or a piece of vegetable on my hand, she will usually stay on it and nibble at least for a little while. Depends on how hard I'm shaking from excitement . If I stroke her, while she does that, she doesn't seem to mind. We are still working on, "Come and I will take you to wonderful places" . For now let me share this video. I know I'm biased but I think she is totally cute. By the way I was filming her while i was lying on my stomach very close to her. I really do appreciate that she didn't just ran away with the seed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoWxp0q_HFI
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Old 01-27-2016, 01:36 PM   #40
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Default Re: My sweetie

You could try clicker/whistle training a hamster, but they aren't meant to be as smart as rats.

Target training might work. Using a small pencil with a coloured end. When they touch the coloured end they get a treat.
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