New, 16 hamsters and counting(unintentionally), a few questions!

[KarlieD]

Hello!
We are living in Dublin, Ireland. A few weeks ago my stepdaughter's 2 male(!) dwarf (presuming they are hybrids as from a petshop?) hamsters, turned out to be male and female, and surprised us with 7 babies!
By the time we realised, it was too late to prevent a second pregnancy, and Dad hamster (named Rose, just to complicate things) was being very helpful, minding babies, bringing in bedding and food, and letting Mam just concentrate on looking after babies. We left all well alone until the babies' eyes were open and they were coming out to see us. Dad has since been moved out to his own bachelor pad! We think babies are 4 1/2 weeks now, and took them out of mam's big cage on Sunday. When taking babies out we became aware of litter no 2, who are tiny and still pink (we hadn't heard or noticed anything the day before so I think they were born sometime on Saturday night/Sunday morning.) There are at least 7 or 8 of them and like before we plan to leave Mam alone and just feed and water as often as needed!
So we now have:
Cage 1 - Dad's pad (he was almost all white when we got him and has now gone a patchy grey/brown)
Cage 2 - Mam (she has a white belly and grey striped back) and Litter #2 (This is the biggest cage, it's Savic Hamster heaven I think)
Cage 3 - Seven 4 1/2 week old babies (they all look really similar to each other - light brown/grey backs)

The babies from litter 1 are still quite skittish as we really held off handling them as we were afraid Mam would do something to them if we did, but I've scooped them up in a glass so I can see their bellies and it's so hard to tell their genders... they're so small! A nearby petshop have a lady working there with several years experience and said that she will sex them for us... but not till they are 6 weeks... is that too long to wait?
The petshop where my stepdaughter got the hamsters have said they will take any babies we want to give them back (at 6 weeks again)... are there any alternatives to this? We want them to have good homes!

Apologies for all of the questions... feel free to move this post somewhere else if it's more suited!
K

[souffle]

Hi there
What a pickle. The bad news is that they mate straight after birth so mum will be having a third litter in 18- 22 days.
Right now you must sex the pups in cage 3 - the must be separated into single sex cages as they can breed themselves at around 4 weeks. Get some storage boxes - Ikea Samla type bins are fine for now. You can put the male pups in with dad. He should be fine with them. Scruff them and look at the two vents. The male pups have wide apart vents with fur between them. Only females have nipple lines which you sometimes see. Males may show testicles bulging and a more obvious scent gland on the tummy button position. Look at dad to see the difference. It can be hard with pups. You could even put them in a class jar but scruffing really is the best way to sex them. 6 weeks is far to long to wait. They need sepated now
They will be hybrids and inbreeding is not a good idea. If you are not sure you need to ask someone who can sex them to do it (not the pet shop you got them from) or look at all the pictures you can find to help. Look at the pics for dwarfs here
https://hamsters-uk.org/content/view/68/48/
If you are not sure you should put it with the males. One female in a box of males is better than one male in a box of females as it means only one pregnant!
There are threads on the forum to help. When mum has the next litter take the large batch out - you should start handling them as soon as their eyes are open for the tamest pups. It will be a lot for mum to raise this third litter so you need to take the second litter out as soon as they appear weaned. They will need loads of extra protein and milky foods as well as their seed mix. Be very generous. I'd move on the male pups at 6 weeks but ensure they are sexed correctly and the pet shop assures you they will be kept in single sex cages and sold as singles or same sex pairs else someone else will have the same issue as you.
If it was a large chain like P&H they should offer some help with extra cages / food really so you can ask.
Dad can never go back. You can keep a daughter to stay with mum but I'd advise one. Keep a son for dad to live with - again one he gets on with and get the rest new homes.
Good luck and ask loads of questions

[KarlieD]

Thanks so much Souffle!
Dad has actually been separated from Mum and pups for over a week - we wanted to take him out before she had another litter and became fertile again, so the current litter (number 2) should be her last!
As the male pups have been separated from him for this amount of time would it be risky to put them back in with him? Or can they be reintroduced?
I'm going to have another go at sexing them as you suggested - I did think 6 weeks was leaving it too late, I don't know why the petshop suggested waiting till then! Thanks for the link to the pics, they may prove very helpful.

[SabreRose]

Oh my god that must be so be so stressful. Oh poor things. It's awful the way petshops keep mixed sex hamsters together so long.
Hamsters can sexually mature anywhere from 4 weeks so waiting to sex them at 6 weeks could land you with even more babies than you have now.
I'd suggest sexing them yourself(using the tips in the other comment) and moving them into single sex groups asap.
It's nice that the petshop offered to take the babies (my local pet shop last a big 'no returns' sign near the pets) but again, doing that may cause more pregnancies and the hamsters could end up being sold to people who won't give them the best care. Though finding homes for all them will probably be near impossible. It's a horrible situation you are in.
I'm in north Dublin and if you find yourself stuck for cages I have a bin cage that you are welcome to.

[souffle]

Were the pups born before he was taken out do you think? When I say right after birth it is literally right after she delivers the last pup!!
He should take back the male pups without any issues. I'd do it as soon as possible now. Put males you are certain are males in with him first. He will keep them in order at first but he will remember they are his pups.
You can try advertising them to pet homes. Often a little ad in the paper shop or near a school will bring in people enquiring for hand tamed pets. I'd intense tame them now so they may well go to pet homes which you can always vet carefully. Make a charge for them as you want the right homes too unless it is friends or family of course. You don't want to give them away free as snake food! (people will do that)
Get your kids in there and taming these pups. Yes they are fast but pups don't tend to bite. Get them in a plastic pox and start stroking and lift and laying them. Be confident with them. Vectis has some help here Vectis Hamstery and Exotics - Handling Hamsters

[emojimom]

Oh wow! This is how I ended up adopting my Anya; she was the product of an unexpected pregnancy of 11 pups! It's good that you're trying to do right by them. There is a ton of helpful folks and info here. Good luck!

[KarlieD]

Thanks again to both of you, Souffle and SabreRose!
We should be ok for cages at the moment anyway, but thank you! We have put out the feelers to friends and family but no one seems seriously interested as yet, I also don't want friends/family taking them on a whim either.
Yes I'm pretty positive he was out at least a week before Litter 2 were born - so shouldn't be any more babies from her after these.
Ok cool I didn't think he would accept them, but it'd make sense to be able to put them together if we could. His cage is next to the one we have the babies in at the moment so they can probably smell each other.
We will probably keep a girl from litter 2 with mam, all going well.

I do think they are cute but I'm laughing to myself as it was my husband who promised his daughter the hamsters and I distinctly told him "Now this is your responsibility. I'm not ending up being the one looking after them!"....

Thanks Emojimom! Lol hopefully it will all work out! They are very interesting creatures (and very cute)!

[souffle]

I'm going to move this over to breeding boards now KarlieD.
Feel free to make an intro all about you.
As this was an unexpected litter you are welcome to post the pups on our rescue board so just make sure you follow the template for posting. If you are in Ireland I think it is the UK rescue rehoming board you want and put your location in the title ie Baby Russian type hamsters in Dublin. You never know someone might be looking!
Rules for Posting On This Topic (MUST READ)

[KarlieD]

Ok, we have 4 boys and 3 girls in Litter 1, and they've now been separated. The boys are back in the cage they were in before and the girls are in a tank I spent the evening cleaning! I checked them all and put them in 2 different containers, re-checked, and then checked each one again before placing in their tank/cage. Thanks again all of you for the help and advice!
I've given Mam a teaspoon of porridge which she seemed to really like and have left her alone apart from that.
Dads bachelor cage is very small, whereas the boy babies are in a much bigger multi level cage. I reckon his cage would be too small to put the babies in with him, do you think I could introduce him into the multi-level cage with the boys? I'm really worried they'll fight!
Note: him being in a small cage is a temporary measure, for the first week he was in the multi level and then we put the pups in there instead. None of our hamsters will be living in a small cage full time!

[KarlieD]

Trying to attach a pic of the 4 boys here!