Register FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Navigation
Front Page
Forum
Gallery
Wiki

Ads by Google


Go Back   Hamster Central > Hamster Central Forum Topics > Breeding Hamsters

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-27-2017, 02:19 PM   #1
Hekomi
Strong Brew Hamstery
 
Hekomi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 5,282
Default The M17s have arrived!

Hi everyone!

We don't normally breed litters so close, but due to extenuating circumstances (Starbuck on the upper cusp of too older for a first litter, and the male, Toby, in this litter being almost 20mo) we bred for two litters, and luckily both took.

This litter is with our youngest female, Jubilee, from our October 2016 litter.



Jubilee is a black tortoiseshell banded LH who carries extreme dilute (aa Cc(e) E- P- Toto Baba ll ). She has better type than both her parents, and had a lovely natural temperament. She became a bit jumpy after being separated from her siblings, but has calmed down a lot. I'm hoping motherhood will also help mellow her out. She's friendly and sweet - just a bit anxious.

For the sire, we had a devil of a time choosing the best fit. My two solid boys were her full brother and her father, so we chose a different male. Unfortunately, we had no other option but another banded male - however he does compliment her weaknesses. I am lucky to have such a long pedigree on them which shows absolutely no white belly, however I really prefer to not breed pattern to pattern. I'm hoping to choose solid pups from this pairing. One of our females was double banded, and so we've ended up with a lot of banded offspring.

The father is Toby, who is an extreme dilute black banded male. He's 20mo old almost, and has a few other litters here and there, though I only have one other offspring from him.



Toby has the sweetest of temperaments, and always has. I'm hoping that shines through in this litter. His type is fairly typical of my ED line (so, not great) while Jubilee excels in areas he does not, with a shorter muzzle and slightly wider set eyes. I'm also hoping Jubi will properly test Toby for LH. I don't think he carries, however.

Other genes "up for grabs" are cream and cinnamon.

I should get all black based pups, black tortoiseshell females, and melanistic yellow males. 50% should be extreme dilute (hamsters don't tend to listen to probabilities however).

Jubilee decided to have the pups last evening around 5pm when my partner and I were making dinner and prepping out meals for the week. We keep our litters in between the kitchen and living room, so we had to cut the dishwasher off and be very quiet. She seems to have taken fairly well to motherhood, only leaving for supplements now and then.

Again, her nest sucks. I don't know what it is with these two... but my other females build MASSIVE underground nests and I can barely tell they've even had the pups. Jubilee has a divot in the bedding. She even has almost a full roll of toilet paper. Sigh.

Anyways, all seems to be well for my littlest girl. I'll update as they grow.
__________________



Hekomi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2017, 02:21 PM   #2
Hekomi
Strong Brew Hamstery
 
Hekomi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 5,282
Default Re: The M17s have arrived!

Oh, here was Jubilee before giving birth.



She was rather massive. She's also one of our smallest girls (from a litter of 18, so I mean I suppose that's not a surprise). She does have quite a number in there, but we aren't looking close enough or hovering to try to count. I try my best not to get head counts, honestly, you're less upset if you lose one or two.
__________________



Hekomi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2017, 02:36 PM   #3
Drago
The Hamtologist
 
Drago's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Southern United States
Posts: 2,855
Default Re: The M17s have arrived!

That's awesome news, congrats! Don't have much more than just a very baseline knowledge in hamster colors and genetics, but they're two beautiful hamsters and I'm sure their offspring will be just as impressive
Drago is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2017, 02:39 PM   #4
Hekomi
Strong Brew Hamstery
 
Hekomi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 5,282
Default Re: The M17s have arrived!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drago View Post
That's awesome news, congrats! Don't have much more than just a very baseline knowledge in hamster colors and genetics, but they're two beautiful hamsters and I'm sure their offspring will be just as impressive
Thanks! It's not my perfect, ideal pair. Ideally, I'd have a solid ED male for her. I had to make due, especially given we are the only breeder working with ED ethically in Canada, and one of like, three? in North America. Kinda stinks.

The dangers of pattern to pattern lie in the ability of bands (and all patterns) to hide a gene called white belly. White belly does as you think - make the belly white. On a banded hamster, where the belly is already white, it's impossible to know if the hamster has it.

Of course, a pedigree eliminates this possibility, one of the very important reasons to breed with one! Luckily, we have several generations on each side of their pedigrees, so we know they're white belly free. Even still, it's not ideal since any banded pups in the litter could then be either single banded, or double banded.
__________________



Hekomi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2017, 03:30 PM   #5
Drago
The Hamtologist
 
Drago's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Southern United States
Posts: 2,855
Default Re: The M17s have arrived!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hekomi View Post
Thanks! It's not my perfect, ideal pair. Ideally, I'd have a solid ED male for her. I had to make due, especially given we are the only breeder working with ED ethically in Canada, and one of like, three? in North America. Kinda stinks.

The dangers of pattern to pattern lie in the ability of bands (and all patterns) to hide a gene called white belly. White belly does as you think - make the belly white. On a banded hamster, where the belly is already white, it's impossible to know if the hamster has it.

Of course, a pedigree eliminates this possibility, one of the very important reasons to breed with one! Luckily, we have several generations on each side of their pedigrees, so we know they're white belly free. Even still, it's not ideal since any banded pups in the litter could then be either single banded, or double banded.
That sounds like a frustrating predicament! It's terribly sad how few breeders there are in NA, the only I've really heard much of outside of you guys is Zika Hamstery which is right near me. The UK is lucky to have so many breeders so readily available, in fact I think I know twice as many UK breeders as I do breeders from my own country! Not too familiar with the white belly gene, but I've heard it being discussed on other forums before, thank you for explaining it more
Drago is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2017, 08:01 AM   #6
Hekomi
Strong Brew Hamstery
 
Hekomi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 5,282
Default Re: The M17s have arrived!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drago View Post
That sounds like a frustrating predicament! It's terribly sad how few breeders there are in NA, the only I've really heard much of outside of you guys is Zika Hamstery which is right near me. The UK is lucky to have so many breeders so readily available, in fact I think I know twice as many UK breeders as I do breeders from my own country! Not too familiar with the white belly gene, but I've heard it being discussed on other forums before, thank you for explaining it more
It is. While I'm lucky that Holmden Hill is close-ish to me (about a five hour drive I think), I'm otherwise about the only established breeder here in Canada. The owners of Zika Hamstery are great friends of mine actually, and they work with us. I'll be meeting them in person for the first time in a few months when we all meet up.

I am definitely jealous of the UK! I'm working on an Ontario Hamster Club here in my area to try to get like minded folks together. We have about 60 people, though breeder wise it's only me, and a few other people who are just starting up. I'm helping out best I can. I'm also slowly getting judge trained, but it's hard when you can't actually go to shows and get hands-on practice.

Feel free to ask more - I love talking genetics. I actually learned so much from this forum. It helped immensely, and the folks here were very supportive of me when I decided I wanted to breed.
__________________



Hekomi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2017, 08:22 AM   #7
Hamsterita
La loca de los hamsters
 
Hamsterita's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: A Coruña, Spain
Posts: 1,693
Default Re: The M17s have arrived!

They're gorgeous!!!

I found your posts really interesting, even sometimes I only understand @#¢∞¬÷“`#$´´?¿][, you know?

I'm curious about something. It's not that I want to breed or anything like that, I don't have the room, neither the time, but I always wondered, If it isn't good to start to breed with regular pet shop hamsters, and there's no breeders at all where you are from, how do you start a new line?
Hamsterita is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2017, 08:45 AM   #8
Hekomi
Strong Brew Hamstery
 
Hekomi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 5,282
Default Re: The M17s have arrived!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamsterita View Post
They're gorgeous!!!

I found your posts really interesting, even sometimes I only understand @#¢∞¬÷“`#$´´?¿][, you know?

I'm curious about something. It's not that I want to breed or anything like that, I don't have the room, neither the time, but I always wondered, If it isn't good to start to breed with regular pet shop hamsters, and there's no breeders at all where you are from, how do you start a new line?
It took me a REALLY long time to learn those! Here, check out this topic I posted when I was just a wee little newbie. Help me with learning my hamster colours?

I didn't get that then either!

That is a great question. I think it's tougher over here in the USA and Canada... given how BIG North America is, the breeders are REALLY fragmented around here. I have been really lucky that I'm not *too* far away from other breeders - about 5hrs, and when I first started, they came partway.

Breeding a unique line has a lot to do with the person as well, and your eye for selection. I'm incredibly lucky to have the support network I do, with Zika, Holmden Hill, and Snowcreek. They've really helped me find an eye for type and push me towards selecting the absolute best from my litters.

A lot of lines however do start from pet shops... and it's certainly not ideal, however I kinda get it. I'm assisting two lovely ladies in Ontario with the beginning of breeding ethically raised roborovski hamsters. In Ontario, we don't have robos. We have about 2-3 really terrible backyard breeders who breed them for $50 each at a profit, and I have heard deplorable things about their health.

The only other breeder of robos is in California. That's a two day drive!

So, unfortunately the lines are pet shop based. While I don't personally breed robos, I've chatted extensively with the California breeder, and so one of the ladies and I went down to the USA and scoured the pet shops. We went to about 15, looking for what we would determine to be the best type and temperament. It's absolutely far from ideal, but I think we did manage to pick some good foundation stock.

I'm also helping them to coordinate a cross-country shipment of robos from the gal in California; sadly, she's taking a hiatus from breeding, so only has one male for us.

Ideally, in the next 3-5 years the group of us throughout Canada and the USA are planning an European shipment though. So the hope would be to bring some proper pedigreed hamsters in.

I think that's a really long winded answer, and I'm not entirely sure I completely answered your question...! But I hope I did. I know in North America, there is a lot more line breeding than in the UK, simply due to this fragmentation, and not having other amazing breeders to get and loan hamsters from. Again, I reiterate how lucky I am to be close to Holmden Hill Haven, but it's not an easy path we have here.

One day, I hope that changes and we have an overarching body like the NHC to govern how people breed and raise hamsters. Geography makes that hard, so that's one of the reasons I'm working on the Ontario Hamster Club. I'm actually mentoring several newer "soon to be" breeders in the area, as I can't wait to have people who I can work with and support.
__________________



Hekomi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2017, 08:53 AM   #9
BorisPasha
PM Fluffy for custom title
 
BorisPasha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Scotland
Posts: 3,467
Default Re: The M17s have arrived!

It's all very interesting Hekomi, it sounds like hard work but very rewarding too I hope you get the hamster club up and running and things go from strength to strength
__________________

Bossed around by Artie, Spartacus, Snapdragon, Feliks, Veikko & Delphia.
Boris, Pasha, Jaska & Max playing at the rainbow bridge, forever loved.

https://www.instagram.com/wehave3hamsters/
BorisPasha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2017, 08:54 AM   #10
Hekomi
Strong Brew Hamstery
 
Hekomi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 5,282
Default Re: The M17s have arrived!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BorisPasha View Post
It's all very interesting Hekomi, it sounds like hard work but very rewarding too I hope you get the hamster club up and running and things go from strength to strength
Thanks! It really is, though it keeps me very very busy. I have a day job (to support the money sink that is breeding LOL) and I've just had my hours bumped so I'll have to find ways to keep everything going.

The club is fun; albeit a lot of work on the front end. I'll be happy when it's all done.
__________________



Hekomi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
litter, jubilee, banded, pups, toby, black, hoping, male, litters, females, dilute, extreme, father, full, type, solid, lot, motherhood, bit, pattern, offspring, fairly, breed, 20mo, tortoiseshell

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.43 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © 2003-2022, Hobby Solutions
All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:39 AM.