Hamster gene question

BeccasHams · 02-13-2016, 02:43 AM

My hamster syrian hamster bean got pregnant by a bit of an accident. Babies are now here and 19 days old. There was 3 originally but one was very runted and ended up "disappearing" at about day 14 when it was under half the size of the others.

Heres my main question. Bean is a long haired black hamster with a white chin and neck, not further though so I wouldn't say shes white bellied, cinnamon the dad was a cinnamon long haired with a very weak band (only a white spot on back) the babies i thought would be dove or dove banded however the one looks like it has light circles around the eyes, would this be sable? and how did that happen? what other recessives would the parents had to have carried? cream and umborus? the second is banded with a lighter face leading to dark with cheek flashes by the looks.

Second why so little babies? i've read it can be anywhere from 2-20 what causes a smaller or larger littler??

Just curious, thanks

Mama2six · 02-13-2016, 04:21 AM

Mama must be umbrous black, and they both carry cream. To get dove, the babies have to have both black and both cinnamon genes. Your cinnamon male could not pass on a black gene (for the babies to be dove) unless he carries black, and your black female can't pass on cinnamon unless she carries it.

Your sable baby could be genetically black, because cream masks black.

souffle · 02-13-2016, 05:40 AM

I don't think that cinnamon is a Cinnamon. He looks like a mink banded to me.
Both pups appear to be sable and one is sable banded. The band and the fur on the face of the banded pup are making it look like he has cheek flashes but I think the face fur may have not grown in right there or he has been stunted or it has been damaged in some way and is just growing in now. It looks thin on the face there.
It looks to me as if mum is a cream carrier so both pups got the cream gene and also the umbrous gene from dad making them both sable.
Cinnamon's band is just incomplete. He is banded.
Mum could be hiding umbrous in the black certainly.
With only the two pups there is a good chance they will both be the same colourwise. Litters vary. You don't know how long the mating was etc and if she had more pups originally so hard to judge size of the litter really. Also if you didn't know she was pregnant she likely didn't receive full pre birth feeding.

Mama2six · 02-13-2016, 11:12 AM

I thought I saw cheek flashes on Papa...

Nancy's Hamsters · 02-13-2016, 11:37 AM

I see a cheek flash on Cinnamon, just barely but there and on my monitor(granted everyone's monitor is slightly different but the band pup looks to my eye to be and Umbrous Silver Gray having and obvious monks cap and very very easily seen cheek flashes and crescents though because of the umbrous their dark gray. Perhaps you might get us some clearer photos of the banded pup and a side shot of the Sire?

IF the band pup is Umbrous Silver Gray then Bean is a silver Black often called Dingy Black and she carries Cream. Pending if Cinnamon is Umbrous or not will decide if Mom is also Umbrous which you can't tell just by looks on Black. It could also be possible both parents are Umbrous and why both pups ended up Umbrous as well.

Litter size as has been stated by Souffle already can't be really determined as she may have had still borns or some may have perished from lack of thriving(like the Runt pup). With you not knowing she was pregnant and not providing high protein foods she may have had lots more but she couldn't supply all with enough milk so she did what any good Dam will do and culled the litter down to a number she knew she could tend to.

Now don't blame yourself for this as it may just be she only conceived 3 pups. Your doing all you can for her now and two lovely pups are now in your life.

BeccasHams · 02-13-2016, 06:01 PM

I can post some more photo's later but in response, Bean was the lightest black of her litter, and isn't super dark black so I could see the dingy thing being true, cinnamon for sure has cheek flashes, so he can't be self coloured if I'm not mistaken.

So basically they both would of carried a cream gene and the umborus gene to get the sable, the second one has fur on it's whole face so it's not under developed I don't think, and it also has cheek flashes, what would they ahve to carry to make him show a gray gene like that?

Nancy's Hamsters · 02-13-2016, 09:28 PM

Silver grey is a dominant gene so all they have to have to produce the little band pup would be for Bean to be dingy black which by the description you just gave she is. Bean doesn't have the Cinnamon gene and is why you have a silver grey pup as if that pup didn't get the gray gene it would have been an Umbrous golden. Also your sable may be silver sable as it's eye rings seem really light almost white. Silver Sables are very pretty