Taking care of babies

[greysome]

Hi all,

Some might know I got two new hammies today--both are 3 weeks and the woman was not expecting her female hamsters to be pregnant (she recently got all her hamsters from another very misinformed person--the parent hamsters are currently ~11 weeks or so and original owner believed hamsters could live in groups) I took in 2 from the 3 weeks litter since they were already separated from mom (the woman

Anyway, she has a litter 2 weeks old and two don't appear to be thriving. They're tinier than the others and don't move as much--one does tend to find his/her way outta the nest and the mother will quickly bring it back in but soon it'll find its way out where it just lays there, completely still. The other, in the hour I was there, was so still we thought it might have passed several times. She's worried about them in particular--they do eat/try to eat when food is in front of them (or under them) but they were pretty dehydrated although the mother appears to be nursing all her kits. They weren't going to the water bottle, she isn't sure if they are actually getting (enough?) milk from the mother, and she doesn't want to risk using a water bowl with the kits in case it causes more harm to them than good (getting wet and unable to stay warm).

I told her I'd ask this forum if anyone knew how to help care for nursing moms/kits, and in particular kits who aren't thriving though mom is caring for them. I mentioned trying cucumbers and baby food to her and she immediately gave them a slice of cucumber, which one of the weak kits did eat (the other I'm unsure about) and said she would go out and get some baby food today. Other kits in the litter did pass away (she mentioned that it seemed as if all the patterned kits were the ones passing, if that info is relevant) although their mom was caring for them. Is there anything she can do? How can she tell males from females? When should she separate them all (I told her 4 weeks to separate by gender but neither of us know enough to tell males from females).

[tolennaki]

Hi greysome, I don't have any experience with babies but from what I have read if the pups have their eyes open it's ok to start handling them. What most breeders do in order to give a better chance to runts is place the other pups in another place (for example another cage or a bin cage) for half an hour or so in order to allow the runts a better chance to drink their milk or have their food without competition from their siblings (obviously please avoid doing that or disturbing them if the pups have their eyes closed or mum seems very stressed after the seperation). Make sure you spread lots of food around and not just in a bowl to allow all the pups to eat as much as they want. Give them runny porridge and baby food. Spread small pieces of cucumber and other fruit and vegetables so that the smaller pups stay hydrated. I don't think the colour pattern makes any difference in which pups make it or not but not completely sure about that. I think you seperate by gender at 4 weeks and each pup to their own cage by 6 weeks. There is a thread somwhere here about how to tell males from females.
I am sorry nobody else has replied so far as this is a case of emergency, but I am sure a more experienced member will come along to give you some advice. Above all, don't beat yourself over it if the pups don't make it. It's very sad but it's nature's way and it's not unusual with hamster litters. Best of luck!

[greysome]

Thanks tolennaki! I'll suggest the separating for half an hour or so at feeding and scatter feeding in addition to the bowl to her. I know one of the kits she was worried about (the one that we thought had passed several times over) didn't make it but the other one, as far as I know is still alive. I'll give her a call tomorrow to check up on the progress and make the suggestions. =)

[Nancy's Hamsters]

Hi Greysome,
Sadly you do lose some pups with a young Mother. She may not be able to tend so many pups so she will often push away the weakest pups so the stronger ones survive. Unless eyes are open any interference could result in Mom killing her whole litter. Weaker pups often have under lying health issues which result in them not surviving. This is so much more so in store bought Females who are already bred as often the sire is a full brother.

If eyes are open many have already said what can be done to help a weaker pup to improve in health so I won't repeat that. I'm glad this owner is willing to accept advice from you though that is a great start to helping the pups.

[greysome]

Ah, I'm late but thank you! The smaller pup is doing much better now--I actually went to see them last week to show how to make bin cages for any hammies they have when it comes time to separate and was surprised how much better she looks. She's still smaller than her siblings but is more energetic and now joining them in climbing over each other and anything they can (which isn't much--mainly the cage bars). The hammies' eyes were all opened when I first saw them so thankfully, we (that is, me and the lady) didn't accidentally do more harm than good when we were first talking about it.

After my other thread trying to sex the two hamsters I got from her, I told her what I learned about sexing the hamsters and I believe, excluding the two I got which were one of each gender, her remaining hamsters from the litter were 2 boys and 4 girls. I believe the litter with the pups she had been worried about will be at the 4 week mark this week and I'll be making a last visit to see her to give her an extra bin cage I won't be using after this week so will do a quick update about the second litter.

She also ended up with yet another unexpected litter though this one she says was her fault as I'll explain below because I know right now, it sounds like she's an irresponsible breeder when she never intended to breed the hamsters and was simply operating under very wrong information. She told me the story quickly when we first spoke but I was writing down her info and missed part of it.

Anyhoo, she took in a group of five hamsters living together from a girl who wanted to get rid of them and, not knowing about hamster care, listened to what the girl told her which she later learned was very, VERY wrong. The girl basically said, amongst other things, that hamsters lived in groups and that though the group consisted of males and females, the females were too young to get pregnant. The first morning she had them (so the first full day she would have had them), one of the hamsters had her litter (which is the litter mine came from). She immediately separated the other hamsters from the new hamster mommy. The following week, another hamster had a litter and she found out from the girl that the hamsters she took in were all related--the two who had given birth were the sisters of the two male hamsters and those four hamsters were the kids of the fifth hamster. With a second litter, she again removed the non-nursing hamsters into another cage and began doing her own research as, at this point, it was obvious the original owner didn't know what she was talking about. The mother of the original hamsters was still living with her two sons but was starting to become aggressive towards them. She separated them and found out syrians were solitary. I popped into the picture that same week or a couple days following and I know last week, when I went over, she told me the original mother in teh group had had babies. This time, fortunately, she's more prepared and knows more about hamsters though obviously, she wishes she knew more about them before all this happened. So in a span of just over a month (my hamsters hit the 5 week mark tomorrow, which means it'll be 5 weeks and 1 day tomorrow she has had these hamsters), she went from having 5 hamsters to having about 30, give or take (I told her to leave the newest litter alone for two weeks except to give food and refill water so we're not sure how many there are just yet).

[DrKMcK]

Geez! What a story. I am so glad you were able to step in and help this poor lady. 30 hamsters when you really aren't prepared for it is a disaster. That lady is pretty terrific in my eyes for caring for them all as well as she has been doing. And very lucky you came into the picture. That's a true crash course in hamstering. I hope she's able to find forever homes for all of them. It is utterly stunning how wrong people can be.

[greysome]

Oh, I'm very happy with how much time and effort she has been putting in and her determination to give all these hammies the best care possible. I don't know if she's had any luck finding homes for the rest of them (I took in two and last time I saw her, she said someone else was coming in to look at them during the weekend) but will ask when I next see her. I was planning on seeing her sometime this week but have a bit of a cold so told her I will go over after it passes.