Golden x sable

[i-love-paddy]

Someone has emailed me to ask if you can breed a Golden to a Sable. I can't see that you can't, but it's not normally a compatable combination. I have said she should go for Cream, Sable or Sable Banded to mate with her Sable



I wanted to see what else I could advise this person. They have also got a Cream and Dove which I again have said isn't compatable colours and wouldn't get a desirable outcome

[pophammy]

It rather depends on the make up of the sable. If it is a pure sable (UUee) mating to a pure golden will give a litter of 100% Umbrous (sooty)goldens. If it is a non pure sable(Uuee) mating to a golden would give 50% Umbrous golden and 50% golden all carrying black eyed cream.

Mating to a black eyed cream (ee) would give 100% sables with a pure sable , and 50% sable and 50% black eyed cream in a non pure sable. Sometimes you cannot be sure what you will get if you are not sure of the genetic make up of the parents. I think the black eyed cream is a good choice actually to possibly get two different colours (only if the parent is non pure sable). Sable to sable would produce some sables and some goldens.

I would not choose he dove as they do not seem sure of the make up of the parents. It may be a dark grey and would give Umbrous dark greys which are not that popular in the 'pet market' Patterned hamsters are always popular so introducing a banded might work. The Banded gene is semi dominant so if the banded parent was BaBa mated to a normal straight colour all the babies would be banded. If the parent was Ba ba half the babies would be banded. Problem is you cannot tell by looking at a banded if the are BaBa or Baba. Unless you know the breeding it is pot luck! Do they have homes for the babies? With all the hams in rescue I would think seriously about breeding unless you are a breeder breeding for a certain type yourself. What outcome in offspring are they actually looking for?

[i-love-paddy]

Well, its not me I have to point out but a young friend of mine. Firstly she has a sable and golden-she doesnt know the full genetics so Im trying to persude her not to do it. But she also has a cream banded and dove which she wants to breed but again I pointed out to he rthat it isnt a compatable combination .



So

[pophammy]

I realize it's not you paddy! The only thing you can be sure of is with the banded that you will get some bandeds. Is it a good band or broken and spotty? Dove is not a standard colour so I do not know the genetics of that. There are various types of grey that a novice might call dovel grey so I do not know what type it is. If these are the hams she has and she must breed then it will be pot luck and a mix if she does not know the genetics. I mated an unknown cream banded to a golden and got 2 sables, 2 cream bands, 1 golden band, 1 cinny band, 1 sable band, 1 cinny, 1 grey and 1 golden. You never know!!!

[babyboos]

There are no incompatible colours as such - it all depends what outcome you are after - as diverse as possible, a specific colour goal etc. There is absolutely no problem breeding any colour to any other colour. Patterns and Coat Type are the only things you need to really worry about - namely Satin (sa) and Anophthalmic White (Wh), also known as Roan. Breeding greys into black lines is not recommended purely for aesthetics, and mixing umbrous with black tends to make them brown a lot quicker. There are a couple more but those are some off the top off my head just now

The main consideration with her golden would be what recessives it carries, it may be an excellent match to produce a nice diverse colour range of babies. It is highly unlikely, though not 100% impossible she may get 100% golden pups, but umbrous from her sable would make some umbrous golden at the very least.

The importance of knowing their gentic background, health, temperment and age should be the overriding consideration, not colour ultimately.

[i-love-paddy]

Both are pet shop hamsters, the other 2 she says she has traced the breeder.



anyhow, you and I both know that if someone wants to breed, then they are gonna do it!

[babyboos]

You are right there