Baby Pics!

WolvesRaven · 06-14-2005, 03:59 PM

I snapped these pics today. I know they aren't the best but I didn't want to upset mom too much. They are three days old today.

Here's their album.

http://photobucket.com/albums/v728/Wolv ... vy/babies/

Emma · 06-15-2005, 02:46 AM

I can't seem to get onto photobucket at the moment, the links don't work for me

however please please be really careful disturbing the nest. Hamsters are much, much more likely to cannibalise their young than other small mammals, and Gravy is a first-time mum, the general advice is to leave well alone until the young are coming out of the nest themselves. SOME hamsters, often who are experienced mums and of a relaxed temperament, will allow an owner to look at the babies without any consequences, but it's not a risk I'd take - having young can really alter an normally placid animal's behaviour. I hope your babies are ok!

WolvesRaven · 06-15-2005, 07:35 AM

I only looked when she was out of the cage. She wanted out so I let her walk around on the floor collecting treats while I looked at them. I didn't touch the nest or babies at all. But I did notice that their ears seem to be open. When do they get fur?

Emma · 06-15-2005, 08:00 AM

I think they have fur usually by about 10 days, by 14 days when their eyes open they're properly furred. Before the fur comes through the skin will pigment depending on the colour they're going to be....Gravy is a longhaired cream isn't she? What was Dad - do you know what colours you're expecting?

I can see the pics now

they're a bit blurry but I reckon there's at least 9 babies there - what did you count? Can't really see their ears either, I thought they usually didn't open till about day 5 but I guess day 3 isn't too far off.

WolvesRaven · 06-15-2005, 04:52 PM

Gravy is a longhaired cream. I think she's satin. Dad is a banded cream. I think.

Here's a pic:

http://photobucket.com/albums/v728/Wolv ... t=sis1.jpg

I've read a little on hamster genetics but I'm still a bit confused. Cream is recessive...right? And since both parents are cream, we should expect at least 50% creams? The satin gene is dominant, and since Gravy is a satin, about half the babies should be satin?

I counted about 7 but I couldn't see that well. My rat had 9 babies too.

But they're all grown up now and in their new homes. I can't wait to watch these babies grow.

Emma · 06-16-2005, 02:24 AM

If there are no hidden recessives:

Gravy is satin longhaired cream baba ee ll Sasa

Dad is shorthaired banded cream Ba* ee L* sasa (the stars could be either Ba/ba and L/l, without knowing his genetic history you won't be able to tell except perhaps from what offspring his produces).

So.....

ALL babies will be cream

Half will be satin

Either half or none will be longhaired (depending on whether dad is LL/Ll)

Either all or half will be banded (depending on whether dad is BaBa/Baba)

However other combinations are possible if both parents carry a common recessive - if you don't know the background of these hamsters then it's impossible to tell. For example if both parents carry a recessive dg (dark grey), you could possibly get black-eyed ivory pups. If both carried recessive a (black) you could get black pups as black masks cream.

**babyboos** · 06-16-2005, 04:44 AM

I have looked at both hamsters again - although I think you must definitely have your mating dates slightly wrong as gestation is a minimum of 16 days... They both appear to be Black Eyed Cream, Gravy is Long Haired and your sister's hamster Short Haired Banded. Please correct me if I am wrong - eye colour especially can be tricky in photographs. If Gravy is Satin then you should produce Satin pups. With one Satin parent, approximately half of the pups will be Satin. The Banded gene is also a dominant gene. Being dominant means that a hamster only needs one of these genes, and like your sister's hamster he will have the Banded pattern (although of course he may have it from both his parents

in which case all the babies may well turn out to be Banded.) It also means that the gene cannot be carried so Gravy does not have a hidden Banded gene. Therefore if your sister's hamster has only one copy of the Banded gene roughly half the pups will be banded.

In genetic terms, the gene for Cream is inherited as a recessive, symbolised 'e' (for non-extension of eumelanism). A Cream therefore has the genotype 'ee'. Black pigment (eumelanin) is completely absent from the hairs, and it is likely that there is some dilution of the yellow pigment also, although this is difficult to demonstrate. The ears may have a 'marbled' appearance in the young animal, but gradually darken with age. The Cream gene prevents formation of black pigment. In genetic terms Cream is said to be epistatic to Black. It is highly unlikely that even if both were carrying Black that you would produce a Black hamster as the Cream would always cover it, but hey you never can tell - random is something hamster genes do well

On surface appearances you can therefore predict you should get all Black Eyed Cream pups with half showing the Banded pattern, and half Satin. These could be either Banded or not. As Emma quite rightly pointed out though we do not know what recessives they could both be carrying and there may be something in common which is currently hidden so only a few more days will tell what the final assortment will be. Not long now till you get to hold them for the first time - exciting isn't it

Oh I almost forgot the Long Haired issue too... unless your sister's hamster is carrying the Long Haired gene all pups will be Short Haired. Satin and Banded are dominant genes Long Hairedness is not.

For more information Syrian Hamster genetics and genotyping

visit River Road Hamstery

Emma · 06-16-2005, 04:22 PM

Ah I got confuddled....cream masks black not the other way around.

SnuggleHam · 06-17-2005, 04:27 AM

Aww babies... Question though, Im not sure what Im looking at, it appears that the babies are in a box or something?

I thought about maybe breeding my syrian gerald since I couldnt find an roborovskis, But I managed to hook myself up in the end, so hopfully by the end of august ill be posting baby hamster photos too!

WolvesRaven · 06-17-2005, 02:15 PM

Yes I put a box in there for her to have them in.

Okay I think I understand the genetics a little better now. The babies are getting bigger and cuter every day. I can't wait to see what colors they decide to be. Thought I do not plan on breeding Gravy again, it will still be interesting to know if she carries any recessives. They all seem to have dark eyes, though I could have missed a light eyed one. No fur yet.

I'll take a few more pics tonight.